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CSO_Talorgan

Rep: 51.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

vonB wrote (View Post):
 let us say we have a Strategic area 100kmx100km.  To make this a seamless area, we would have to have a CC Map 100kmx100km.  I suspect this is not even possible due to PC resource limitations, and we could look at it as 10,000 1kmx1km Maps.  I know Shane can churn our Maps at a prodigeous rate, but I think the prospect of producing 10,000 Maps would be just a bit too daunting... 


Remember that the area covered by MMCC III is limited not by MMCC III but by the power of your computer. Computers nowadays are very powerful.

southern_land wrote (View Post):
wonder what ever happened to curtain 67?  He was making the mmccIII style strat layer to go with cc3, last thing I heard he was on version 2


http://freespace.virgin.net/sam.deeside/strategiccc.htm

vonB wrote (View Post):
you would need access to the Source Code and Development files, and my C++ skills are woefully inadequate


I was thinking more in terms of an enhanced MMCC III rather than hacking the game itself.

vonB wrote (View Post):
I have no idea what Advanced Tactics is


It's an operational level game, also from the Matrix stable which has the advantage of being highly moddable.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/345/details/Advanced.Tactics:.World.War.II  

I fantasise about having the coding skills to amputate Close Combat's strat layer and bolt the remainder onto the underside of Advanced Tactics thereby achieving the object of this thread.

:)

It's just an example though. The fora are littered with similar suggestions involving other operational games, and at the end of the day if someone could figure out how to exchange data between games it would matter not a jot which one was used.

vonB wrote (View Post):
I have published a small 'CC Fantasy' on my Web Site


We dream the same dream, and I am sure that many others around here do too.
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vonB

Rep: 32.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

Quote:
It's just an example though. The fora are littered with similar suggestions involving other operational games, and at the end of the day if someone could figure out how to exchange data between games it would matter not a jot which one was used.


I am in the process of trying to produce a Saved Game File Handler specifically for this kind of purpose.  Perhaps build a DLL that can be accessed by others for the purpose.  You can 'pick' at bits of it (using a Hex Editor for example), but the real power would come from a comprehensive and complete File Handler.  It's not an easy job as there are a lot of 'unkown' Bytes (well somebody from the original CC dev Team must have known), and being able to Read and Write a complete File is the ideal as it would allow complete integration with all the CC processes.  I am making slow progress, and no doubt it will speed up as the initial obstacles are overcome.  Anyway, it is a fundemental piece of the jigsaw if we want to leverage CC3/CoI to the max to integrate with an alternative strategic game.  It's do'able (as MMCCIII demonstrates), but I want to take it further.

An interesting (and also dissapointing) bit of intelligence, is that the cc3.exe will accept command line parameters for launching H2H games, but unfortunately not Single Player.  That is a bummer.  If it were able to do this, then all that a strategic system would need to do is write the Saved Game File and then launch CC3/CoI straight to the Requisition Screen automatically.  Looks like it could be done for H2H though...

Yes, I have been dreaming of a compelling Strategic/tactical interface for CC3/CoI evern since MMCCIII first came out, as it opened the doors to the possible, and the key is the Saved Game File.  Nail that, and you have won half the battle at least.  I will not be creating the strategic game.  I have neither the skills nor the time to do so, but I hope that I may be able to 'oil the wheels' for others.  At least, that is my intention.
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

Can anyone add to this?

http://www.closecombatwar.com/pics/hexingcc4.jpg
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

I think that MMCC3 picks up from the save game from offset 28988, that's where the data for the existing (remaining) units begins... I think.
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vonB

Rep: 32.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

I'll take all the intel I can get on the CC3/CoI Saved Game File...
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

attached


mmcc3_1.zip
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  mmcc3_1.zip
 Filesize:  649 Bytes
 Downloaded:  261 Time(s)

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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:06 am Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

sorry this is better


mmcc3_1.zip
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  mmcc3_1.zip
 Filesize:  6.61 KB
 Downloaded:  265 Time(s)

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vonB

Rep: 32.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

We will see what we can glean from that.   Looks like the logic from the Client.
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

It's part of the java source decompiled.

Someone at CSO posted it years ago and I saved it just in case.
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vonB

Rep: 32.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

Making some progress with the Saved Game File.  There are plenty of 'icky' bits, but if I can continue like this, I may have it nailed in a couple of weeks or so.  But that is just the first hurdle...
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CSO_Linebacker

Rep: 5.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

I had envisioned a similar idea but on a smaller scale. I couple of years ago, I took a map of Betio scaled to CC...then layed a grid system over it.  It was a system of offset 1200 X 1200 grids...with the offset allowing for each map to potentially exit onto more than one map on a side.  Sounds like your idea is something similar but on a grand scale.


'If it does not have a gun, it cannot be fun'
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CSO_Talorgan

Rep: 51.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

vonB wrote (View Post):
It's do'able (as MMCCIII demonstrates), but I want to take it further


Is the bloke who wrote MMCC III not still around?

Trying to think of the info that Close Combat needs to set up a tactical game:
    The map to use
    The victory locations on that map
    Their names
    ... and values
    Tile ownership: red, blue or neutral
    Forces on map
    Forces off map
    Ammo
    Fuel
    Winter conditions (III)


I thought you already had the campaign file licked, ... er, Von B?
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

apiotrow has gone
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vonB

Rep: 32.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Seamless Strategic Scenarios... Reply with quote

Quote:
Trying to think of the info that Close Combat needs to set up a tactical game:


That depends.  You could get away with quite little depending on how you wanted it set up, and whether it was just for a one off or part of an Operation.  There's a sod of a lot of Data in that Saved Game File (over 220,000 Bytes)!  MMCC3 gets a head start by creating the CC3Start File (which you create when you build the Campaign).  Using this as the foundation populates quite a lot of Data without having to dive into the binary file Byte by Byte.  After that, the MMCC3 Service can change a few values to kick off a Battle.

Some of the stuff is relatively easy, but there's a lot of ???? (Reserved Bytes, Padding, and values that never hit the surface).  Without a Data Dictionary, it's a bit of a minefield!  I have been gathering and gleaning Intel to stitch it all together, and am making some good progress!  The Campaign File is irrelevant as far as this goes.  The Saved Game File comprises ALL the Operational Data (that's all the details), while the Campaign File just stitches all the Ops together.

However, perhaps you or somebody can help me.  I am looking for well populated CC3/CoI Saved Game Files being played as Russians.  They should have plenty of Infantry and action, such as Kills (Infantry, Vehicles, Tanks, Bravery, Cowardice, Medals).  Same for Guns, Vehicles, and Tanks.  I have plenty of Files from games played as Germans, but Russian (Allied) Data appears first, and it is the first instances which need crunching to get the formats sorted out.

My aim is to nail as much as possible so the CC Tactical Game can be integrated as completely as possible, and that includes Experience, Health, etc, etc,... well basically all the history, so it can be passed from Battle to Battle and thus integrate with the Operation/Campaign.  The Strategic Layer will need to keep a handle on all these things independantly of CC.

There are 2 main sections of the Saved Game FIle.  The Operational Data, and the Operational Status.  An Operation in CC3/CoI can be anything from 1 to 5 Maps.  Basically whatever you can do in the Scenario Editor.  Some of it is easy to nail, and some of it is just winging it, with many many trial and error, and cross referencing, hence the call for well populated Files played as Russians.  For example ,there are 160 Soldier entries in the Operational Data, for each side.  You can easily see these with a Hex Editor.  Unused one's have 'Unkown' in them.  The first Offset for these is 44392.

As anyone who has dipped into a Hex Editor knows, the String Stuff is relatively easy, but when you are face with Single Byte, 2 Byte, 4 Byte, Boolean, and whatever else lurks there, it can be very challanging, (when is a Byte just padding?), even if I do have some scraps of info left over from the old days.... and believe me, that helps!

I reckon I am around 40% through, and hope to have the Operational Data done in a week or 2.  Then it's the Operational Status, and for one reason or another, that is not so straightforward (that is, even less than the Operational Data).

I will be looking for anyone interested in collabroating in due course.  For reasons I can't explain, I am unable to do that with what I am doing now, but the fruits of my labours will be made available to the Community in some form.  As I said, my intention is to try and oil the wheels for some Community level enterprise in terms of developing some Strategic Game, and if nothing else, it could result in some very useful Tool(s).  Already it's quite fun to watch the Data spring out of the Binary onto the screen in a human form  8)

One thing I am looking forward to (if I succeed) is if the Saved Game File can be used to create custom battles without the limitation imposed by the Scenario Editor.  FDeploy for example allows you to create a Battle without the restrictions on Deployment.  The Saved Game File stores ALL the Data including deplyment areas, Barrages, VL's, etc etc, so maybe it can be used to create deployment areas anywhere on the Map.  That we will just have to see. Wish me luck!
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