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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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most66




PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: Tiger I and Kingtiger Reply with quote

Hi! Where can I find Tiger I and Kingtiger in Close Combat IV? I could play with Kingtigers in the demo version of the game, but I can't find any in the full version... Sad
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RD_Roach

Rep: 1.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:22 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Put your settings to Recruit for the Germans.


CC Greatest Game Ever!
www.reddevilscc.com
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most66




PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi! I tried it, but I couldn't find any in the single battles. Only Panther G-s, and other armoured stuff. Anything else what I could do to slove this problem?

I installed the the CCIV demo again, and there is some Kingtiger when the germans are recruits.
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flick

Rep: 17.6


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

You sure it was a king tiger? The only heavy tanks/SP's I saw on recruit, were Jag-Tigers and Jag-Panthers.

Historically, I don't think there were enough Tigers and King-Tigers to really be used realistically in game..?
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king_tiger_tank

Rep: 0.1


PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

From my info, I've found that there were Tigers and King Tigers at the Battle of the Bulge. Though few in numbers they did a pivotal role in the battle.


What would H Jones do?
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flick

Rep: 17.6


PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang, so why didn't we get any in the game? Sad
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most66




PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I do see Jag-Tigers and Jag-Panthers in the full version game! But not Tigers and Kingtigers (as in the demo of the game). I can't find them in the game...
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a screenshot of the GETeams.adb file.


CC4-tiger2.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  126.58 KB
 Viewed:  27280 Time(s)

CC4-tiger2.jpg



CC4-tiger.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  108.11 KB
 Viewed:  27276 Time(s)

CC4-tiger.jpg


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most66




PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx! How can I open my file like this?
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Digs

Rep: 56.7
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Reply with quote

The program is called QClone and it's availible in the downloads section. You need to install Microsoft's Java Virtual Machine in order to use it. You can find MSJVM in the downloads section as well. There are two versions of MSJVM, install v3805 first, v3810 is an update.

QClone link: http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=

MSJVM link: http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=216
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most66




PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx! With this I can modify the numbers of the troops in the game?
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KGPeiper

Rep: 25.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Tiger I and Kingtiger Reply with quote

most66 wrote:
Hi! Where can I find Tiger I and Kingtiger in Close Combat IV? I could play with Kingtigers in the demo version of the game, but I can't find any in the full version... Sad


Oi !!! You don't need Qclone to see Koenigtiger in action! All you need is a little bit of patience coz Kingtigers will appear automatically(especially in Kampfgruppe Peiper, Very Happy hehe) since 20th, 21st or 22nd december as I remember :what2 . But usually Grand Campaign didn't last that long Razz
Solution: create your own operation starting from 20th(and further) december

flick wrote:

Historically, I don't think there were enough Tigers and King-Tigers to really be used realistically in game..?


1st SS Panzer Division 'Liebstandarte' have whole company of Kingtigers as I remembered[from Andre Zbigniewski "Ardeny 1944/1945" - ("Ardennes 1944/1945")] and that was almost third part of all armor they're having at the time...

Cheers :drink2
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CSO_Linebacker

Rep: 5.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct Peiper, Schwere Panzer Abteilung 501 (IIRC) was attached to 1st SS Panzer Division in the Ardennes.


'If it does not have a gun, it cannot be fun'
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ronson

Rep: 36.7
votes: 5


PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Take care when looking at numbers in German armoured formations in the late war period....

Recently I have been looking into the Goodwood operation in Normandy in July '44. During this the Germans deployed 503 Heavy Tank Battalion under Captain Fromme.

The paper strenght of this formation was 2 companies of Tiger1 each 10 strong and one company of Tiger11, again 10 strong.

During the actual battle 503 had the grand total of 12 tanks running and able to take part.

This is obviously a different period to that of the Ardennes offensive, however it does provide a comparison of what was supposedly available against what was on the ground.

Cheers
Ronson


GR member Ronson1  ac 4247033
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fruitbar

Rep: 53.2


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Tiger I and Kingtiger Reply with quote

i got an idea! how about you download this and place it in your cc4\data\battles folder

this is the exact same copy of the single battle in cc4 demo downloaded from ccs

except i renamed it to Malmedy so you dont have to worry about it replacing Dasburg for it is basically the famous Kampfgruppe Peiper complete with a full platoon of Konigstigers attacking killing the American battlegroup here in which apparently their commander was weak and its team members were supposively just fresh out of basic training



Malmedy.zip
 Description:
Dasburg renamed to Malmedy

Download
 Filename:  Malmedy.zip
 Filesize:  273 Bytes
 Downloaded:  609 Time(s)

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Sapa

Rep: 76.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Tiger I and Kingtiger Reply with quote

If you look at this link it has been discussed before.The are some other links found by Squadleader about the Tiger I and Tiger II in the battle of the bulge, and it seems that there wasent any Tiger I in the Ardennes...

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7101
 
/Mats
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fruitbar

Rep: 53.2


PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Tiger I and Kingtiger Reply with quote

KGPeiper wrote (View Post):
Oi !!! You don't need Qclone to see Koenigtiger in action! All you need is a little bit of patience coz Kingtigers will appear automatically(especially in Kampfgruppe Peiper, Very Happy hehe) since 20th, 21st or 22nd december as I remember :what2  . But usually Grand Campaign didn't last that long Razz
Solution: create your own operation starting from 20th(and further) december
Actual Solution: create your own operation starting from 26th(and further) december and play as Kampfgruppe Peiper Very Happy

btw there were no Tigers in the Ardennes. Only King Tigers. generally prominent in Kampfgruppe Peiper.

If you really want Tigers. You will have to use QClone to edit the battlegroup or force pool(i think?). But Tigers arent as good as King Tigers in terms of armor and firepower anyways. Hell they are slower and considerably less useful than Panthers.


Last edited by fruitbar on Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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RodentDung

Rep: 0.1


PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Tiger I and Kingtiger Reply with quote

That's the common misunderstanding people have about German tanks.  People assume that all latewar tanks are better than early war tanks.  Tigers were better than Panthers in combat in both armor and punch.  Panthers were preferred in latewar cause they cost 1/3 as much as a Tiger and they were faster.  Do a little reading to learn this and also notice how much easier Panthers were destroyed in combat.
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fruitbar

Rep: 53.2


PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Tiger I and Kingtiger Reply with quote

well in this case. im not talking about real life tigers comparing to real life panthers.

im talking about the game that the panther being faster and with a higher velocity gun is more useful than a tiger.

well i meant the tiger is less useful comparing to panther. i dont know about stronger.
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vonB

Rep: 32.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Tiger I and Kingtiger Reply with quote

In RL, the Panther had a higher stopping power than the Tiger I at close range because of the higher muzzle velocity, but the Tiger I had better longer distance performance due to the heavier round.  The Tiger II outclassed them both at any range.

Interesting comment fruitbar.  Panther or Tiger I as a preferred tank in CC?  For myself, I would definately pick the Tiger I.  Even though it is slower, the combination of defensive strength and stopping power make it my preference.  The Panther is pitifully weak from the side or rear, though the CC combat model does allow things to happen which I don't find credible, such as a PaK 38 destroying a KV from the front.  I don't care how many shots it takes, if the physics determines that it cannot penetrate that much armour, then it can't happen, but CC does allow it to sometimes (I have done it), and to blow it up, it has to penetrate something.  There's an interesting description in 'Panzer Leader' (Heinz Guderian) if I remember correctly, which describes such an encounter for real.  The KV was eventually despatched by an 88 Flak 18 or 36 borrowed from an AA battery.

Saw an programme on TV recently, talking to a bunch of Allied and German Tankers from the West Front (post Normandy) era, discussing the issues from their eyes.  It mainly revolved around Sherman and Tiger I crews and their experiences.

One comment that was unanimous; they all would prefer to have operated in a Tiger I.  This may seem a bit like stating the obvious.  The Tiger I outclasses the Sherman in every particular with the exception of manouverability and turrent rotation.  The other issue was logistics.  Shermans outnumbered them, so could afford the losses, while the loss of a Tiger I was a big problem.  But it seems that the opinions of all the tankers was that they would have preferred to be operating in a Tiger I outnumbered by Shermans, than the other way around, even though, in the scheme of things, the Tiger I was doomed eventually.

The description given by one of the German crews about when he was sitting in the Tank in battle, being struck by AP continually (I presume from the 75mm of the Sherman), which can't feel comfortable  Wink , but surviving the encounter(s).  The main threat to the Tiger I was the Firefly, and it is also interesting to note that the German tankers mentioned that they would always try and find out where the Fireflies were and take them out first.
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