Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: [DOF: Barbarossa!] help, i'm losing it
I'm playing Barbarossa! campaign (operation 3 of 7, day 4 of 15 to be exact) and I'm pretty much f**ked:/ Here's the map:
First I had lots of troubles to capture most of VLs and now I cannot hold them. I lost half of my units, don't have enough points to buy new ones and Soviets keep storming me with their T-34's, KV-2's and some other heavy shit. They don't even need infantry to beat me.
It's my first campaign and I'm having a strange feeling that I got it all wrong:/
Any word of advice? Please...
EDIT:
And here's the briefing screen for this map:
How am I to understand the part saying: withdraw in order? Does it mean I am supposed to lose here?
Last edited by vitamin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: [DOF: Barbarossa!] help, i'm loosing it
Hello vitamin!
I was in pretty same situation as you are now, just i was playing with Russians. First operation is very easy for Germans and hard for Russians.
Yes, you have to flee this map(s). Try to give them some loses and then run. Accumulate resource points and buy AT guns or armor. When you come to 4/5 maps you should be able to stop them there if not sooner and push back.
That's how it started for me. I was playing 1st map for 3 days trying to win it. No joy. Now i have almost finished the grand campaign with Russians. AI is pretty dumb as you will see.
First I had lots of troubles to capture most of VLs and now I cannot hold them. I lost half of my units, don't have enough points to buy new ones and Soviets keep storming me with their T-34's, KV-2's and some other heavy shit. They don't even need infantry to beat me.
The Camapaigns are made up of historical operations.
Some are German attacking operations and some are Russian attacks.
The 3rd Operation of the Barbarossa campaign is a Russian Counterattack near Kiev in 1941.
Historically,it was the 1st time that the Russians pushed the Germans back.
Their short lived success was all in vain as the ArmeeGruppe Mitte spearhead swung south from the North behind Kiev and more than 100,000 Russin troops were surrounded and captured.
It's my first campaign and I'm having a strange feeling that I got it all wrong
Well you haven't got it ALL wrong
ACTUALLY, IF YOU ARE STILL ON THE START MAP ON DAY 4/5, YOU ARE DOING WELL!
To win Campaign points in this operation, all you have to do is prevent the Russians from taking the last map in the 15 days provided and make them pay heavily for the maps they do capture.
LOL, no, not realy, just hit and run, preserve your men, build their experience and make the enemy suffer.
There are 5 maps and 15 days.
Thats 3 day per map.
So you only need to hold each map for 3-4 days each to win the points in the Op.
The Russians must take each map in 3 days or less to win.
How am I to understand the part saying: withdraw in order? Does it mean I am supposed to lose here?
"WITHDRAW IN ORDER" means dont stay and fight to the death, it means delay the enemy, inflict some pain on them, then withdraw before you get routed or overrun.
If you think you are having a hard time, you should try it on "HERO" difficulty level!
After 3 operations i was losing the campaign on points!
The setting i was playing were Hero difficulty, 12minute battles, 2 minute warning, game speed "Fast".
These settings give the AI the help it needs.
Eventually, i gave up on the "Fast" game speed and slowed it down so that i had a chance.
Managed a Minor Campaign Victory at the end of a close hard fought contest.
As you improve, keep increasing the difficulty for yourself (so you feel the pressure).
There is nothing more satisfying than winning a game that you almost lost
Once you can beat the AI on the hardest game conditions, then you are ready for H2H!
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: Re: [DOF: Barbarossa!] help, i'm losing it
Thank you all for your great response and help. But I got some more questions to ask:
- When I retreat/flee, does it mean I lost the battle? Or is it possible to score at least a minor victory while retreating/fleeing?
- How are requisition points being calculated after scoring some defeat? Do I get any in that case at all?
- Are some VL more important than others? I'm just curious because AI is trying to capture one particular VL on this map and I don't know why actually?
- When my opponent is calling for truce, is it because of taking heavy casualties? And does it mean that I win if I agree for truce?
And the last one - ArmeeGruppeSud was referring to some points e.g.:
So you only need to hold each map for 3-4 days each to win the points in the Op.
What are these points exactly? And where I can find and check them? Btw, do these points decide who wins the whole campaign?
ACTUALLY, IF YOU ARE STILL ON THE START MAP ON DAY 4/5, YOU ARE DOING WELL!
A little update on my progress: It's 8th day of this operation and I'm still holding on the start map. But it's mainly because of poor AI tactics. Yesterday I managed to hold one VL while defending it only with 3 units: my mighty 88, Panzer Mark III, and command unit of 3 men:)
A little update on my progress: It's 8th day of this operation and I'm still holding on the start map. But it's mainly because of poor AI tactics. Yesterday I managed to hold one VL while defending it only with 3 units: my mighty 88, Panzer Mark III, and command unit of 3 men:)
You know, you could have already won probably if you had retreated and used the points you get for retreating to a new map to build a better force to counterattack and be better prepared the for next operation. If you stay there and win with those three units by a miracle, next operation you won't have nothing to attack with.
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: [DOF: Barbarossa!] help, i'm losing it
It's hard to tell if I won or lose actually. The fact is I lost many units while attacking on this map and then trying to hold that VL in village. I made some mistakes there and it costed me alot. But now I found a very effective way to defend on this map and wanna hold this till the end of this operation (5 more days left). If AI won't change its tactics I can win without any casualties on my side:)
But since it's my first campaign I don't care that much about final score. I'm just having a good time while playing (what a marvellous game it is:)) The only problem is I'm lacking experience and some knowledge - and that's why this topic and all my questions.
When I retreat/flee, does it mean I lost the battle? Or is it possible to score at least a minor victory while retreating/fleeing?
Technically, yes, if you flee the battlefield, you have lost the battle for that piece of ground.
But you must consider what is most important.
Winning the operation/campaign
Tactical withdrawals are an important tool of smart commanders, which, when used intelligently, can ultimately lead to great victories. This is true historically in "Real life warfare" and in CC games.
How are requisition points being calculated after scoring some defeat? Do I get any in that case at all?
Wish i could understand it all myself. Most requisition points are awarded in the Operation scenario file, but the game engine makes other calculations which affect the requisition points given each side. It is documented in the games readme file in you CC game folder.
- Are some VL more important than others? I'm just curious because AI is trying to capture one particular VL on this map and I don't know why actually?
Yes and no.
Every VL has the same value as every other VL as far as the games win/lose calculation.
Some VLs will have a greater or lesser tactical value, depending on their location on the map.
- And does it mean that I win if I agree for truce?
if you are defending, a truce means you will still be on that same map for another day, i'd call that a tactical victory :)
A tip: If the AI is asking for a truce, it means they have been hurt bad and if you have enough resources, it is a good time to attack. If you can start moving toward their VLs (having your teams movement dots on their VLs) the AI might flee! Thus handing the map to you.
If it is the start map, then you will immediately win the operation
And the last one - ArmeeGruppeSud was referring to some points e.g.:
So you only need to hold each map for 3-4 days each to win the points in the Op.
What are these points exactly? And where I can find and check them? Btw, do these points decide who wins the whole campaign?
At the end of the battle.
The BATTLE DEBRIEF SCREEN will be displayed
On the lower right hand side of that screen is the word DEBRIEFINGS
Under that, are 3 buttons BATTLE, OPERATION, and CAMPAIGN
The CAMPAIGN DEBRIEF SCREEN will show you your completed operation scores and you CAMPAIGN SCORE
A little update on my progress: It's 8th day of this operation and I'm still holding on the start map. But it's mainly because of poor AI tactics. Yesterday I managed to hold one VL while defending it only with 3 units: my mighty 88, Panzer Mark III, and command unit of 3 men:)
Here is a tip
Refit and rest your units, before next battle, then flee immediately next battle (with your units resting). You will get more RP next day, so you can build up a stronger force.
The AI will only have a small foothold on the next map.
Conceal you units in good defensive positions that enable you to iflict a heavy toll on the attacking Russians.
When their attack dies, you can carefully make advances, if they call for truce, the put more pressure on them until they flee. Then you will be back on the start map with a stronger force and you could get them to flee again and get big victory points for the OP.
4 points is maximum points obtainable in an operation.
Good luck kamerad
Reckon i derserve some good rep points for all this generous time consuming help
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: [DOF: Barbarossa!] help, i'm losing it
Thank you very much AGS for your reply and all answers to my questions. And yes, you've earned some rep pts too:)
Just one more thing that bothers me. I really struggle every time I am to attack some villages or towns. I mean I cannot find a good method for fighting enemy who is hiding inside buildings. Could you tell me if there are some particular units that are most effective in urban combat?
ps.
I already tried Flamingo but it's useless - its 50m range is not enough and has weak armor.
I also thought that Pioneers would be a good pick but they are some cowards. When I want them to assault some building they just hit the ground and crawl to their previous positions as soon as enemy opens fire.
EDIT:
I forgot about one thing - there're some briefings missing in this campaign. But the whole rest is fantastic:)
Just one more thing that bothers me. I really struggle every time I am to attack some villages or towns. I mean I cannot find a good method for fighting enemy who is hiding inside buildings. Could you tell me if there are some particular units that are most effective in urban combat?
ps.
I already tried Flamingo but it's useless - its 50m range is not enough and has weak armor.
I also thought that Pioneers would be a good pick but they are some cowards. When I want them to assault some building they just hit the ground and crawl to their previous positions as soon as enemy opens fire.
The flame throwers are good when you dont need to get across open ground before you can use them (great if already in town) especially in forrested areas.
My favourite option,.....
Is BLASTING THEM!
If you have safe postions that have good LOS on the enemy held buildings, then requistion a 10.5cm leFH or a 15cm sIG and BLAST the commies to hell!!
These big guns also have reasonable anti-tank capabilities.
Or, if you need mobile firepower to be able to get LOS, then requistion the sIG-33 SPG and BLAST the commies to hell!!
- there're some briefings missing in this campaign. But the whole rest is fantastic:)
Yes, its just that, for just one person, making the DOF2 mod and creating dozens of campaign operations was such a long arduous and mentally exhausting task, that i literally could not muster any more creative energy to write dozens of battle briefings.
If somebody wants to volunteer to write them for DOF3, they can be my guest.
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: Re: [DOF: Barbarossa!] help, i'm losing it
Regarding fighting in urban areas, yes, you're right that blasting them with some heavy armor is very nice (only yesterday I bought that Feld Haubitze leFH-18 and it's really great). But the problem is that very limited LOS. I guess I'll have to try that sIG-33 SPG and see how it's doing its job. (thanks for the tip)
But it's a pitty that infantry is so ineffective in those kind of combat. I mean when attacking of course.
And as it comes to briefings, it's great that your still working on DOF3 and I hope that somebody will give you a helping hand. Many thanks once again and good luck AGS!
only yesterday I bought that Feld Haubitze leFH-18 and it's really great). But the problem is that very limited LOS.
Hey, heres a thought.
If there are enemy soldiers hiding in a building behind a building you can hit, you can do this......
Blow holes through the walls of the 1st building by targetting its walls, then shoot THROUGH the 1st building to blast the commies in the building behind!
It works!
Once in a H2H campaign against a very wiley opponent, i had to blast holes through the wall of a factory in Stalingrad so i could get LOS and kill his engineers and flametank who were holding the last VL
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: [DOF: Barbarossa!] help, i'm losing it
Thanks AGS for letting me know about this little trick:) I never thought that such things are possible in CC:o Btw, does this work for trees either?
And just one more thing that bugs me after playing some more and more (you know how addictive is playing this game;)) Why are snipers so useless? Enemy can spot them almost as easily as some heavy gun or tank:/ And they got killed so quickly when trying to engage some infantry. It would be great if they were less visible... could be used as FOs for example.
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