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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Quote:
And perhaps CC2 and CC3 might not actually run well on W7. I haven't heard if they do or dont.


CC3,4 and 5 will run on W7. Have never tried old CC2 disk.

The single issue that do not like with the older CC games, is the scrolling issue where pretty much have to use the arrow keys on the game maps rather than the mouse as they *fly* by if you try to scroll with the mouse.


PeG-WW2 Campaigns Page
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Antony_nz

Rep: 79.6
votes: 6


PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:17 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Use the program turbo down. Its slows the mouse speed.

The question i want to ask is will/can/should they make a new Close Combat? Close Combat 6.
If they do it has to be made in WW2. Simple as that,

And 2nd. Will someone else be able to make a new close combat. Or has Matrix involvement put a halt to that.


http://talesofclosecombat.blogspot.co.nz/
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Stwa wrote (View Post):
Gary,

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I do think in the end, one needs to determine just what Matrix accomplished.

To what extent has CC been revived? I truely cannot say. If CC5 and CC4 do run well on W7, then just looking at the content of this site alone, one might argue that Matrix accomplished nada (or very little), for at least those titles. Maybe "disservice" is strong language, but 50 bucks for a CC remake is equally strong language.

True, there would not have been CCMT.

And perhaps CC2 and CC3 might not actually run well on W7. I haven't heard if they do or dont.

But I can remember being in the camp that just wanted the games patched (i.e. no new features).

But you can see Matrix went much further than all that, with new features, new e-book manuals, digital download and boxed versions, a web site so Matrix could post up add-on content, servers for mass multiplayer events, overly elaborate marketing pages in their product section, outiside Matrix marketing, and fake game reviews (they cost money too). They didn't have to do all that, but you see this is the type of stuff that makes a software war game cost a lot of money.

Gary, perhaps you have a built in bias for game producers in general, rather than a built in bias for game users/consumers.


So do I understand correctly that you are actually complaining that Matrix added new features and material to CC and made it easier to find opponents online? Other people are complaining about remakes and you are complaining that they added things? I guess Matrx can't win?

I suppose I do tend to sympathize with those who do the tedious work so that others can have fun and consume. I don't think anyone forced anyone to buy a remake of CC. You are perfectly free to not buy them. Did Matrix engage in false advertising saying they weren't remakes? Where is the "disservice" in all this?  Confused
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Gary,

Your acting like its difficult (or impossible) for you to understand the points being made in this thread.

I won't speak for others, but had Matrix simply fixed the campaign related bugs and perhaps scrolling in CC5, and re-released that, I would have probably purchased that game from Matrix. I am guessing those changes would have taken just a few months (perhaps weeks), to fix.

As it is, they created what I would consider a cluster f*** (TLD), and everyone had to wait for several years before it was available. That game, I did not buy.

But Matrix was after more money (sometimes construed as profit, sometimes construed as greed). They wanted to capture on-line play, and they wanted to capture any derivative works (i.e. mods), and become the sole sponsers or providers of same. As it turned out, that did not work out as planned.

And maybe you could speak to the points being made, that CC5 (and perhaps other titles), work fine in W7, without any modifications to them whatsoever.

Again, I cannot speak for others, but I would prefer to play reg CC5 (circa 1999), on W7, before I would play TLD.


Last edited by Stwa on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

A quote from GaryChildress  Arrow

I suppose I do tend to sympathize with those who do the tedious work so that others can have fun and consume.

Such broad, general statements, always make me wonder if the author, was just veiling their true intent, perhaps as follows  Arrow

I suppose I do tend to sympathize with MATRIX who does all the work so that lazy gamers and nerds can test thier software.

or like this  Arrow

I suppose I do tend to sympathize with McDONALDS who slaves away so that obeese losers can eat crappy synthetic food.

There is really no end to these analogies.  Idea
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

1)In playing my current unmodded GC of WAR I've had one CTD and the AI is not able to assign support properly.
Out of 8 Allied BG's in Battle only one got support.
3 who won't see Battle this turn got the other support.

2)The AI still deploys AT_Guns deep in the woods where they never see any action nor or they of any use.

3)I've never seen the AI use air support.

4)I find that if I don't offer or accept a Truce the player is left with having no Enemy BG's to fight.
They just don't seem to come back.

5) I see no body posting any issues with the games over at Matrix on a regular basis,thus leaving me with the conclusion that no one is playing.

6)They have once again moved forward with a new game before addressing the needs of the current games.



Conclusion?
That's a disservice.
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Stwa wrote (View Post):
Gary,

Your acting like its difficult (or impossible) for you to understand the points being made in this thread.



And you are doing the same toward the points I am making.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Come on Gary,

THIS IS CCS  Arrow
Close Combat Series Arrow
The Thrill of Combat - The Power of Command

But just to be fair, I did go back to your posts, and I just didn't see any real point being made at all.  Laughing
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Stwa wrote (View Post):
Come on Gary,

THIS IS CCS  Arrow
Close Combat Series Arrow
The Thrill of Combat - The Power of Command

But just to be fair, I did go back to your posts, and I just didn't see any real point being made at all.  Laughing


Did you even try to understand?
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

GaryChildress wrote (View Post):
Stwa wrote (View Post):
Gary,

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I do think in the end, one needs to determine just what Matrix accomplished.

To what extent has CC been revived? I truely cannot say. If CC5 and CC4 do run well on W7, then just looking at the content of this site alone, one might argue that Matrix accomplished nada (or very little), for at least those titles. Maybe "disservice" is strong language, but 50 bucks for a CC remake is equally strong language.

True, there would not have been CCMT.

And perhaps CC2 and CC3 might not actually run well on W7. I haven't heard if they do or dont.

But I can remember being in the camp that just wanted the games patched (i.e. no new features).

But you can see Matrix went much further than all that, with new features, new e-book manuals, digital download and boxed versions, a web site so Matrix could post up add-on content, servers for mass multiplayer events, overly elaborate marketing pages in their product section, outiside Matrix marketing, and fake game reviews (they cost money too). They didn't have to do all that, but you see this is the type of stuff that makes a software war game cost a lot of money.

Gary, perhaps you have a built in bias for game producers in general, rather than a built in bias for game users/consumers.


So do I understand correctly that you are actually complaining that Matrix added new features and material to CC and made it easier to find opponents online? Other people are complaining about remakes and you are complaining that they added things? I guess Matrx can't win?

I suppose I do tend to sympathize with those who do the tedious work so that others can have fun and consume. I don't think anyone forced anyone to buy a remake of CC. You are perfectly free to not buy them. Did Matrix engage in false advertising saying they weren't remakes? Where is the "disservice" in all this?  Confused


Muhahahahaha - OF COURSE I TRIED

Look, I am even resorting to using the quote thingy. Feel free to ACTUALY respond to some of the fans. It looks like some of them have some legitimate concerns regarding Matrix's service to the community.

Meanwhile, I am going to enjoy REG CC5 on my wife's laptop, while you mull things over.  Idea
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Stwa wrote (View Post):
GaryChildress wrote (View Post):
Stwa wrote (View Post):
Gary,

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I do think in the end, one needs to determine just what Matrix accomplished.

To what extent has CC been revived? I truely cannot say. If CC5 and CC4 do run well on W7, then just looking at the content of this site alone, one might argue that Matrix accomplished nada (or very little), for at least those titles. Maybe "disservice" is strong language, but 50 bucks for a CC remake is equally strong language.

True, there would not have been CCMT.

And perhaps CC2 and CC3 might not actually run well on W7. I haven't heard if they do or dont.

But I can remember being in the camp that just wanted the games patched (i.e. no new features).

But you can see Matrix went much further than all that, with new features, new e-book manuals, digital download and boxed versions, a web site so Matrix could post up add-on content, servers for mass multiplayer events, overly elaborate marketing pages in their product section, outiside Matrix marketing, and fake game reviews (they cost money too). They didn't have to do all that, but you see this is the type of stuff that makes a software war game cost a lot of money.

Gary, perhaps you have a built in bias for game producers in general, rather than a built in bias for game users/consumers.


So do I understand correctly that you are actually complaining that Matrix added new features and material to CC and made it easier to find opponents online? Other people are complaining about remakes and you are complaining that they added things? I guess Matrx can't win?

I suppose I do tend to sympathize with those who do the tedious work so that others can have fun and consume. I don't think anyone forced anyone to buy a remake of CC. You are perfectly free to not buy them. Did Matrix engage in false advertising saying they weren't remakes? Where is the "disservice" in all this?  Confused


Muhahahahaha - OF COURSE I TRIED

Look, I am even resorting to using the quote thingy. Feel free to ACTUALY respond to some of the fans. It looks like some of them have some legitimate concerns regarding Matrix's service to the community.

Meanwhile, I am going to enjoy REG CC5 on my wife's laptop, while you mull things over.  Idea


Maybe it's a "half empty" vs "half full" thing. You see deficiencies where I see human fallability and an honest and reasonable effort by Matrix to please their customers. I don't always get my wishes either as far as wargames go, but that's just sort of the way life works at times. Maybe I'm just a "sucker" or an "apologist" for a greedy corporation but I have never had a serious problem with Matrix that couldn't be agreeably addressed nor have I had such high expectations of games that those expectations have been utterly destroyed. I expect Matrix to charge a fair market price for their products and I expect that I will not always get exactly what I want out of the games they offer. I may state my own personal beefs about a product but I'm not going to say that Matrix has been a "disservice" because they didn't deliver exactly what I wanted.
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Tejszd

Rep: 130.8
votes: 19


PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Sounds like a reasonable way to view things Gary....
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

I suppose I should acknowledge that others in the thread have some valid points about the CC re-releases. I guess I've had some really great experiences with Matrix games and just don't want to believe that the same Matrix games could be a source of frustration for others. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 9.4
votes: 9


PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

What I find disheartening it that there seems to be only one person doing all the programming, and while that assures continuity it also provokes bottle necks, unseeing bugs, only one way of thinking etc.


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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Maybe it's a "half empty" vs "half full" thing. You see deficiencies where I see human fallability and an honest and reasonable effort by Matrix to please their customers.

I don't think in those terms or perspectives. I view things as a business transcation only. Sorry, its not personal, but deliver the goods or I am going to be pissed.

I don't always get my wishes either as far as wargames go, but that's just sort of the way life works at times.

Ok, your gonna tell us about life now. My game cost $20 bucks, hardly a beeg deal, and I am just as capable as anyone else of determing if I got $20 bucks of value. It has NOTHING to do with wishes.

Maybe I'm just a "sucker" or an "apologist" for a greedy corporation but I have never had a serious problem with Matrix that couldn't be agreeably addressed nor have I had such high expectations of games that those expectations have been utterly destroyed.

What the heck are you talking about. Are you saying consumers need to lower thier expectations. You would be shocked how many people today work in software development of one kind or another. These people in particular, and most people overall can tell if they are  getting ripped by a software game provider.

I expect Matrix to charge a fair market price for their products and I expect that I will not always get exactly what I want out of the games they offer.

So does Matrix charge a fair price, or is that subjective, and is it possible for lowly Stwa to assess if Matrix prices are fair or not. And I had better get what the hell I wanted from the game, or I am gonna be pissed. Nothing personal, its business.

I may state my own personal beefs about a product but I'm not going to say that Matrix has been a "disservice" because they didn't deliver exactly what I wanted.

Again, you are simply abstracting "value". I can determine (without your help), if in fact I have (or have not) routinely recieved value from Matrix goods and services.

And just to clarify, I have purchaed 4 games from Matrix since their founding. The last one was in Dec 2008, I believe.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

I suppose I should acknowledge that others in the thread have some valid points about the CC re-releases. I guess I've had some really great experiences with Matrix games and just don't want to believe that the same Matrix games could be a source of frustration for others. Maybe I'm wrong.

Come on dood, Matrix is a business. Think of it as a restuarant. Some of the menu items are good and some of them are crap. If a repeat customer guesses wrong and always orders the crap off the menu, then they are not going to be customers for very long.

It really isn't a psycho drama or anything. Either Matrix stops feeding me crap, or I am going to be pissed. Its nothing personal, its business.
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davidssfx

Rep: 16.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

I was kind of disappointed when I first bought and tried TLD ... it wasn't a very well polished game. Besides that, there were some bugs in the mechanics.
I didn't buy any CC's after CC3 because of some of the CC5 bugs that didn't get fixed. When I heard about the re-releases fixing some of the bugs and allowing the game to play properly on new computer hardware ... I decided to buy TLD.
After playing it for a while, I decided to edit a few things to make it more to my liking.
Eventually those few changes grew into a mod with the help and expertise of other CCer's.

The Ground Tactics mod went through several (or more) edits, until reaching a point where I think it's good enough.
info about it linked here:
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=9691
 
Although the game lacked in some areas, I appreciate the ongoing effort from Matrix to get things working correctly. Things seem to be working well in the 5.50.14b patch.

I also realize there is a small team working on the re-releases with probably a minimum budget ... therefore, it takes more time, etc.
In the end ... I'm a happy with the purchase

edit .... also:
the new vehicle and soldier pathfinding is a huge improvement to the game (imo).


Last edited by davidssfx on Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

I had a similar experience with CCMT. Out of the box, I was very dissapointed. The game mechanics were rough and buggy and a UI that Matrix refused to polish.

After the re-release (about 6 weeks after the initial release), things weren't much better, but I began to mod, concentrating of some of the soldier types which I thought at the time were causing most of the mechanics problems.

At that point I was ready to pitch the game in disgust. Matrix never produced an ongoing effort to fix CCMT. In fact there hasn't been any update since Jan/Feb of 2008.

But then zon came to the rescue, and I started modding maps, UI goofs, and data. Now Matrix claims there will be a CCMT update. Geeeee, thanks guys.
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Stwa wrote (View Post):
I suppose I should acknowledge that others in the thread have some valid points about the CC re-releases. I guess I've had some really great experiences with Matrix games and just don't want to believe that the same Matrix games could be a source of frustration for others. Maybe I'm wrong.

Come on dood, Matrix is a business. Think of it as a restuarant. Some of the menu items are good and some of them are crap. If a repeat customer guesses wrong and always orders the crap off the menu, then they are not going to be customers for very long.

It really isn't a psycho drama or anything. Either Matrix stops feeding me crap, or I am going to be pissed. Its nothing personal, its business.


You have an excellent point.
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