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ThomasLidstrom

Rep: 4.1


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:20 pm Post subject: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Hello everybody,

I have been a "lurcher" at CCS for a long time.
I have mainly downloaded various mods and patches for different versions of CC, but rarley done anything in the forums

The last year or two I have noticed a really big decline in uploads to CCS.
For me this is a clear sign that this site is dying.

I have no problems uploading myself, but then I do not make any mods.

What can be done to yet again increase the amount of uploads, and hence the number of visitors, and hence the number of members?
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

The best way for that would be to give everyone a hundred bucks when they register.

Site doesn't seem dead to me, and nobody wants to mess with anymore uploads. How many mods does everyone need?

Hehe, but I did notice today, that DAK_Legion is putting up some links. Okinawa on TLD, Betio on CC3, Star Wars on LSA, me thinks. ?
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Lindström bring up an important question.

Is CCS and the community slowly…. ?

How do we measure the activity and strength of the community?

By the number of mods made?
By the numbers of users here at CCS?
By the number of online GR people?
By the number…? of …? something else..?
Combination of all--- ?

A reflection, based only on reflection, I dint see any increase in activity after PitF was relised.? I mean, after WaR was on the market I saw numerous old player return, same after TLD, but after that I cant say I seen any revival of the community… Its based on feeling, not hard facts and numbers.. Maybe Mooxe can help here?

Tigercub, Ronson, Mikewarleo, Nikin et al knows more about GR activity, what’s yer reflection on this topic?? I appreciate yer input here.

/S
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Betio on CC3 ??? Very Happy




Close Combat's most infamous SOB
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mooxe

Rep: 221.7
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

ThomasLidstrom wrote (View Post):
Hello everybody,

I have been a "lurcher" at CCS for a long time.
I have mainly downloaded various mods and patches for different versions of CC, but rarley done anything in the forums

The last year or two I have noticed a really big decline in uploads to CCS.
For me this is a clear sign that this site is dying.

I have no problems uploading myself, but then I do not make any mods.

What can be done to yet again increase the amount of uploads, and hence the number of visitors, and hence the number of members?


There certainly has been a big decline in mods. The new versions are very slowly spawning mod conversions, not really new material though. I wouldnt say CCS is dieing specifically, I think the CC community is dwindling out as a whole. We've been saying that for years though. The Matrix/Wargamer/Slitherine forums are also very slow. The problems I have been having keeping the site online are not helping either! There are few mods on the very edge of being released, for CC5 and the GJS conversion, we'll just have to wait out on those.

What can be done?

Well theres a few answers. Mods can work. Site content could help as well. I attempt this with Boot Camp articles, Terrain Challenge, and CC Player's News. Basically all the new content on the site is done by very few people, and it comes in randomly and seldomly, this is no fault of anyones-- its a hobby. The Terrain Challenge I actually find fun... some of the challenges that have been solved with very little clues were simply amazing.

I have never been very friendly with the people who have put out the retread versions of Close Combat. Maybe if I was CCS could of been more involved in terms of articles or dev forum participation. I never liked the new versions because of thier quality which is where most of my disagreements came from.. anyways thats all covered in different threads.


Join Discord for technical support and online games.
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Ryz

Rep: 13.9


PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Mooxe

I am very surprised they did not invite you to participate in the rerelease process.

Sounds like poor PR on their part.

David
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Sapa

Rep: 76.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

There are peoples here that was very involved in the "new games"...the strange thing is that they had no opinion about that all the Mod Tools that was working for CC5 now is out of buisniess...

It was great to use the StratEdit program to make your stratmap for CC5 including other stuff...it is really sad

And the same people that complained about some of the bugs in CC 5 didnt see all the new ones in the "new" games...

YES it is dying! at least for me :-(

Cheers Mats
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Antony_nz

Rep: 86.6
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

In my view, the most important thing is to answer threads and be helpful.
As long as the community is helping, then its serves its purpose.


http://talesofclosecombat.blogspot.co.nz/
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Slyguy3129

Rep: 12.3


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

The community will stay alive until they release a 3-D non Top Down Close Combat. Then the actual Close Combat fans will leave, leaving only the Call of Duty Close Combat fans who want the game to be 3d and to win a beauty contest. That is when Close Combat and its real community will die, which may be very near in the future. Afterwards there will be a community claiming to be Close Combat, but it won't be, and anyone with half a brain will know it to be true.


"Why So Serious?!"
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general_solomon

Rep: 22.7
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

I think to bring new players and older fans back is to start up a youtube channel with multiplayer full battle recordings. as well as let's play video of campaigns and mods.

I love this place. hope it never goes away. I just think the leaders of this forum should use newer technology to attract new members.

Clans should record battles and post them on the ccs youtube channel.
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TheImperatorKnight

Rep: 30.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

general_solomon wrote (View Post):
I think to bring new players and older fans back is to start up a youtube channel with multiplayer full battle recordings. as well as let's play video of campaigns and mods.

I love this place. hope it never goes away. I just think the leaders of this forum should use newer technology to attract new members.

Clans should record battles and post them on the ccs youtube channel.


As someone who has a CC-orientated channel, with 6 multiplayer battles uploaded, I can honestly say that few people are interested in seeing cc multiplayer battles. People do search for CC videos though, just not multiplayer battles. The idea is good in theory - it's what ZeroEmpires did with Age of Empires - but sadly, CC doesn't allow 4v4 multiplayer or FFA's or 3v1... so multiplayer just isn't interesting to watch. Unlike in AoE, CC battles take too long to get going, so viewers get bored very quickly and don't watch them (they like to watch CC2 and CC3 though because those battles are quicker).

I suggested some multiplayer changes on matrix forums (to allow team games and recorded games like in AoE), so I'm hoping they change multiplayer in the new games they're making. But then, I'm probably one of these "Call of Duty Close Combat fans who want the game to be 3d and to win a beauty contest" so I don't think these suggestions will please everyone here.

(Also, I don't own CCMT, but I guess that game may be better for multiplayer recorded battles. It's just a shame it's not popular.)


I have a Close Combat Youtube Channel

My Small Maps Mod for Close Combat: Gateway to Caen. Install guide and discussion
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Silverpen

Rep: 28.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Hello,
 I don't think CCS is dying; it is at a crossroads. The diehards, mod makers and core of player enthusiasts will always be there.What has happened tho
 is there has been no truly NEW CC games produced by large game makers like Matrix (if you can call it one). If you notice almost all CC activity has
 been either reworking/improving the old base games like CCII,CCIII,CIV and CCV by Matrix OR Mods and submods primarily on CCIII and CCV.

 What is required are completely new titles on wars/battles not already covered ( I have mentioned the Italian Campaign) using a NEW better engine
 with a smarter AI. Ortona''43 recently published by expert Mod folk  is an excellent example of a new subject but still uses an old engine.Actually I
 find CC focused on a single battle/operation far more realistic than trying to cover an entire theatre of war.
 The 2D versus 3D issue is gimmicky just like the complete 3D bust again in movie theatres.

 Silverpen
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TheImperatorKnight

Rep: 30.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Silverpen wrote (View Post):
The 2D versus 3D issue is gimmicky just like the complete 3D bust again in movie theatres.


I agree with you for the most part. But not with this.

We're not talking about the same popping-out-of-the-screen-but-you-have-to-wear-stupid-glasses-3D you get in the movie theatres. We're talking about updated graphics and better looks that will bring the series into the 21st millenium.

I mean, by your reasoning, we may as well stick with black-and-white low-def tvs, because we don't need them. It's all about the gameplay - or the tv show - not about colour or screen resolution or 3D graphics.

At the end of the day, why can't we have 3D? What's not to like about 3D? Why stick to 2D if we have the option of moving to 3D? Especially if you consider that moving to 3D will probably attract more players to the series. More players = more revenue, which in turn means more games, and a series that isn't dying.

3D isn't bad for CC.


I have a Close Combat Youtube Channel

My Small Maps Mod for Close Combat: Gateway to Caen. Install guide and discussion
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Silverpen

Rep: 28.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Hi TMK,

 Thanks for your come back on my comments on 3D being gimmicky. Okay I got a little carried away. So maybe 3D graphics will add "something"
 to ensuring CCS's future.

 Frankly I don't watch any movie in HD that isn't well written well acted and tells a great story.So graphics is but a small part of the
 story. By the way can you or anyone provide me with an example of a CSS type game pic in 3D? What does it look like?Is it still a top down view?
 I have most of the games in the Call of Duty series.To me that is 3D! Close Combat cannot go there..period. Nor should it! It is not that kind of a
 game a "first person shooter"!

 What I am referring to is improving upon the key elements of CC that has made CC successful over these past twenty years..particularly the AI:
 higher res graphics so viewing combat closer in is realistic, playability,new and different battles/conflicts besides WWII. I don't go for being
 able to choose battle groups etc..stick to the historical BG's. If you want to reinvent a conflict and play "what if" by changing this then that's
 another matter. Yes finally it is really about improving the gameplay not the nice packaging or look. Why because people who enjoy and play CC
 are a relatively small special breed of war gaming enthusiasts who have found what they want.
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Silverpen

Rep: 28.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Hi TMK,
 Thanks for your come back on my comments on 3D being gimmicky. Okay I got a little carried away. So maybe 3D graphics will add "something" to
 the CCS's future.

Frankly I don't watch any movie in HD that isn't well written well acted and tells a great story.So graphics is but a small part of the
 story. By the way can you or anyone provide me with an example of a CSS type game pic in 3D? What does it look like?Is it still a top down view? I
 have nearly all the games in the Call of Duty series.To me that is 3D! Close Combat cannot go there..period. Nor should it! It is not that kind of a
 game a "first person shooter"!

 What I am referring to is improving upon the key elements of CC..particularly the AI: higher res graphics so viewing combat closer in is realistic,
 playability, realism,new and different battles/conflicts besides WWII. I don't go for being able to choose battle groups etc..stick to the historical BG's.
 If you want to reinvent a conflict and play "what if" by changing this then that it's another matter. Yes finally it is really about the gameplay not
 the nice packaging or look.
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TheImperatorKnight

Rep: 30.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Silverpen, I completely agree. What we need is an improved game. Lots of people say the AI needs improving, and that's been an issue for years now. I keep going on about an improved/dynamic strategic map, and many people talk about 3D and things like that.

Unfortunately, we won't get that all in one go because the developers are small. They can't pump millions into a game to make it great. They can only improve one or two things at a time. And they have to make a profit at the same time. So, unless Matrix pull a miracle, or a huge company buys the rights to CC and sets a huge team of programmers to it, I doubt we'll get what we want.

As far as the 3D's concerned, have you not seen Panther's in the Fog? That's the latest CC game, and the only one with sorta "3D" graphics. (Not sure how to post pics here, sorry) However, Matrix are meant to be creating a truly 3D game - but there's no details on how that will look yet.

-

Anyway, back on topic. I think that CCS is doing ok, considering the circumstances. But if you want to make it more popular, we simply need to get more people playing CC. That's the issue here.


I have a Close Combat Youtube Channel

My Small Maps Mod for Close Combat: Gateway to Caen. Install guide and discussion
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CCMMORTS

Rep: 0.8


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:46 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Well Achtung Panzer Kharkov 43  is exactly a close combat in 3D!
I dont understand why people are talking about call of duty in here, it's not even an RTS.

I also took some time to make a comment in the poll Can CC go 3D? which I think is worth reposting here since there is talks concerning 3D in this thread.

We have to ask what going 3D would accomplish? Would going 3D improve the gameplay? The only thing I see concerning gameplay is that it would remove the thought process the player has to make to turn a 2D map with elevations in 3D in his head to position his troops. Going 3D can also break the gameplay if it's poorly implemented. For instance I dislike the camera controls in Combat Mission or Achtung Panzer. The player has to devote a big part of his energy to controlling the camera instead of actually playing the game. I'd say the 3D control in Company of Heroes or Men of War doesn't really get in the way of playing and would be the way to go.

Would it increase the appeal, sales and the player base? Sure the era of 2D is somewhat over, although some games like Terraria pull it off by compensating graphics with the ability to be creative and a sense of freedom. The bottom line is what's selling the game is not its graphics, it's the ideas, the possibility to recreate a fun experience everytime you play. CC has been going for 20 years, without being a 3D game, because the ideas and concepts in this game are timeless. In this era of social media and of being constantly in touch with people over the Internet, Close combat has to embrace multiplayer to survive. That's how Company of Heroes maintained its longevity for 6 years or so. An amazing multiplayer. I am appalled to see developpers choosing to invest resources in the form, the visuals of the game before adressing the multiplayer.

More so, one big appealing factor of Close Combat has been its warmaps AND the element of persistence you get from getting battlegroups all the way through campaigns with medals and statistics. So i say, instead of going 3D, KEEP IT 2D BUT CREATE A LIVE EVERCHANGING WARMAP FOR ALL PLAYERS TO FIGHT ON AND COMPARE UNIT AND BATTLEGROUP ACHIEVEMENTS. THAT WOULD DRAW PLAYERS IN!!!

Finally I would also add that CC appeals to a very niche market of gamers. The type that would play Panzer General, Unity of Command, Advanced Squad Leader. These games again are timeless. They are not about the graphics. I don't think there is any substantial gain to make in the player base just by going 3D. You will only draw people who like WW2 era and history, war, battlefields, commanding etc. in any case. Even with very nice graphics, Company of Heroes had a player base at its peak of popularity of maybe 12 000 players. The idea is not to get more than that but to retain them. The solution to that is multiplay and building a community through forum discussions on the metagame, and the metahistory of the game if it's a live warmap and that is all.


''Where the iron crosses grow''


Last edited by CCMMORTS on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:59 am; edited 4 times in total
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general_solomon

Rep: 22.7
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:51 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Multi-player is way to go when they develop the 3d game along with a solid cover system. i have been watching videos of team play with the arma 2 and 3 games. The game as a singlerplayer get really boring after you play a couple of times.

then comes the multiplayer section of the game and this is where it shines. there are clan or groups from 4 - 100 plus players.

What sets this game from other fps games the multiplayer, you can not run and gun. you have to use realistic military tactics to survive, let alone win.

now imaging if you will a cc game with a larger map that allows squads to be controlled by a person. also there is a communications available in-game. also, you could either play again other players or against the IA with your friends.

unfortunately matrix folks are not into this type a game. perhaps it will cost too much.
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CCMMORTS

Rep: 0.8


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

Well general solomon we agree that the multiplayer is the way to go.
and yes it is cost prohibitive considering the need for server infrastructures, maintenance and development.
and that is why development resources must not be wasted on 3D IMO.
That would require an engine overhaul, new models and animations. Too much waste.
The cover system is already there. What must be improved is being able to choose house stories for squads and also be able to better position your squads in cover (ie : not having that guy stick out of the trench). Improve pathfinding.
But yeah...wouldn't it be awesome to have that constant warfront you can log into and choose where you deploy your platoons etc.

On a sidenote, I still don't get the comparison with call of duty, arma, or even red orchestra/darkest hour. I mean I enjoy those games but they have nothing to do in the discussion.


''Where the iron crosses grow''
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general_solomon

Rep: 22.7
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Is CCS slowly dying? Reply with quote

ccmortis: the arma reference was made for its robust command structure in multiplayer. you have an overall commander, platoon leads as well as squad leads.

image having this type of opportunity here with cc. you join a clan or team. start out as leading a small squad. if you do great, get promoted to higher position.

of course with a game like this you would need to enhance the IA to be able attack, flank, defend and counter attack.
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