Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:20 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
ok, so what is your idea of freight for 49.000 tons of bread from Canada to USSR in May 1932, and when do you think it will reach USSR? bread=grain=wheat or whatever, stated bread in the document.
ok, so what is your idea of freight for 49.000 tons of bread from Canada to USSR in May 1932, and when do you think it will reach USSR? bread=grain=wheat or whatever, stated bread in the document.
Duuno, but here you go.
ok, 8-10 days in your picture is a freight by air.
as you probably know it was kind of hard to fly the goods between the countries in 1932 not mentioning that it would cost an amount of average European country gold reserve to fly 49.000 tons of grain from Canada to USSR.
just for your understanding altogether USSR imported 100.000 tons of grain from Canada in 1932.
ok, 8-10 days in your picture is a freight by air.
as you probably know it was kind of hard to fly the goods between the countries in 1932 not mentioning that it would cost an amount of average European country gold reserve to fly 49.000 tons of grain from Canada to USSR.
just for your understanding altogether USSR imported 100.000 tons of grain from Canada in 1932.
please read carefully what I posted - sea parcel pricing and delivery times were also included by Meest.
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:09 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
I think here fellas that we should all step back take a deep breathe & get back on topic..
We are all a band of brothers... with Close Combat Series as our interest & outlet for a great game.
That you have a difference of opinion it is just that... PM each other if you wish to continue but please be mindful of whats happening now.
The people in Crimea have voted & so be it...
I only wish the ordinary people of the Ukraine well & they too take a deep breathe take stock & continue to produce & thrive in their nation. Without being the chess board for every other Tom, Dick, or Harry.
The sooner that happens the sooner everyone can get on with it..
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:11 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
just for your understanding altogether USSR imported 100.000 tons of grain from Canada in 1932. -Dima
Extensive export of grain and other food
Some publications claim that after recognition of the famine situation in Ukraine during the drought and poor harvests, the Soviet government in Moscow continued to export grain rather than retain its crop to feed the people,though at a significantly lower rate than in previous years. In 1930–31, there had been 5,832,000 metric tons of grains exported. In 1931–32, grain exports declined to 4,786,000 metric tons. In 1932–33, grain exports were just 1,607,000 metric tons, and in 1933–34, this further declined to 1,441,000 metric tons. Officially published data differed slightly:
Cereals (in tonnes):
1930 – 4,846,024
1931 – 5,182,835
1932 – 1,819,114 (~750,000 during the first half of 1932; from late April ~157,000 tonnes of grain was also imported)
1933 – 1,771,364 (~220,000 during the first half of 1933; from late March grain was also imported)
In 1932, via Ukrainian commercial ports the following amounts were exported: 988,300 tons of grains and 16,500 tons of other types of cereals. In 1933, the totals were: 809,600 tons of grains, 2,600 tons of other cereals, 3,500 tons of meat, 400 tons of butter, and 2,500 tons of fish. Those same ports imported the following amounts: less than 67,200 tons of grains and cereals in 1932, and 8,600 tons of grains in 1933.
The following amounts were received from other Soviet ports: in 1932, 164,000 tons of grains, 7,300 tons of other cereals, 31,500 tons of, and no more than 177,000 tons of meat and butter; in 1933, 230,000 tons of grains, 15,300 tons if other cereals, 100 tons of meat, 900 tons of butter, and 34,300 tons of fish.
Michael Ellman states that the 1932–33 grain exports amounted to 1.8 million tonnes, which would have been enough to feed 5 million people for one year. -wiki
ok, 8-10 days in your picture is a freight by air.
as you probably know it was kind of hard to fly the goods between the countries in 1932 not mentioning that it would cost an amount of average European country gold reserve to fly 49.000 tons of grain from Canada to USSR.
just for your understanding altogether USSR imported 100.000 tons of grain from Canada in 1932.
please read carefully what I posted - sea parcel pricing and delivery times were also included by Meest.
yeah, so when you know that it takes 4 weeks today by sea freight to get goods from Canada to USSR, maybe you can make a guess when USSR received the grain ordered in Canada in May 1932 to compensate a bad crop yield of 31/32 and when the population was starting to feel that there is not enough bread?
just for your understanding altogether USSR imported 100.000 tons of grain from Canada in 1932. -Dima
Extensive export of grain and other food
Some publications claim that after recognition of the famine situation in Ukraine during the drought and poor harvests, the Soviet government in Moscow continued to export grain rather than retain its crop to feed the people,though at a significantly lower rate than in previous years. In 1930–31, there had been 5,832,000 metric tons of grains exported. In 1931–32, grain exports declined to 4,786,000 metric tons. In 1932–33, grain exports were just 1,607,000 metric tons, and in 1933–34, this further declined to 1,441,000 metric tons. Officially published data differed slightly:
Cereals (in tonnes):
1930 – 4,846,024
1931 – 5,182,835
1932 – 1,819,114 (~750,000 during the first half of 1932; from late April ~157,000 tonnes of grain was also imported)
1933 – 1,771,364 (~220,000 during the first half of 1933; from late March grain was also imported)
In 1932, via Ukrainian commercial ports the following amounts were exported: 988,300 tons of grains and 16,500 tons of other types of cereals. In 1933, the totals were: 809,600 tons of grains, 2,600 tons of other cereals, 3,500 tons of meat, 400 tons of butter, and 2,500 tons of fish. Those same ports imported the following amounts: less than 67,200 tons of grains and cereals in 1932, and 8,600 tons of grains in 1933.
The following amounts were received from other Soviet ports: in 1932, 164,000 tons of grains, 7,300 tons of other cereals, 31,500 tons of, and no more than 177,000 tons of meat and butter; in 1933, 230,000 tons of grains, 15,300 tons if other cereals, 100 tons of meat, 900 tons of butter, and 34,300 tons of fish.
Michael Ellman states that the 1932–33 grain exports amounted to 1.8 million tonnes, which would have been enough to feed 5 million people for one year. -wiki
I want you to help yourself.
Now looking at these numbers can you come to a any conclusion for 32-33?
And does it correspond to:
Quote:
The guys that made this video suggest grain was taken from the citizens and exported to the West.
and
Quote:
Holodomor was a famine in Ukraine caused by the government of Joseph Stalin, a part of Soviet famine of 1932–1933. Holodomor is claimed by contemporary Ukrainian government to be a genocide of the Ukrainians. As of March 2008, Ukraine and nineteen other governments have recognized the actions of the Soviet government as an act of genocide. The joint statement at the United Nations in 2003 has defined the famine as the result of cruel actions and policies of the totalitarian regime that caused the deaths of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Kazakhs and other nationalities in the USSR. On 23 October 2008 the European Parliament adopted a resolution that recognized the Holodomor as a crime against humanity. -wiki
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:43 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
That you have a difference of opinion it is just that... PM each other if you wish to continue but please be mindful of whats happening now. -Bungara
On January 12, 2010, the court of appeals in Kiev opened hearings into the "fact of genocide-famine Holodomor in Ukraine in 1932–33", in May 2009 the Security Service of Ukraine had started a criminal case "in relation to the genocide in Ukraine in 1932–33".[13] In a ruling on January 13, 2010 the court found Stalin and other Bolshevik leaders guilty of genocide against the Ukrainians. -wiki
Obviously the relationship of the USSR and Ukraine is changing once again. I see any discussion of recent events such as the court actions mentioned above and the accusations of the alleged genocide in the 20th century as ON TOPIC.
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
Quote:
On January 12, 2010, the court of appeals in Kiev opened hearings into the "fact of genocide-famine Holodomor in Ukraine in 1932–33", in May 2009 the Security Service of Ukraine had started a criminal case "in relation to the genocide in Ukraine in 1932–33".[13] In a ruling on January 13, 2010 the court found Stalin and other Bolshevik leaders guilty of genocide against the Ukrainians. -wiki
yeah, didn't actually think about it before but Stalin was a Georgian jew, most of the top persons in bolsheviks that time were jews (Zinoviev, Kamenev, Trotskiy) so yeah probably they wanted to genocide slavic population of USSR !!!
Quote:
I see any discussion of recent events such as the court actions mentioned above and the accusations of the alleged genocide in the 20th century as ON TOPIC.
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:14 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
yeah, didn't actually think about it before but Stalin was a Georgian jew, most of the top persons in bolsheviks that time were jews (Zinoviev, Kamenev, Trotskiy) so yeah probably they wanted to genocide slavic population of USSR !!! -Dima
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:42 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
Well, I mentioned Kherson and its possible referendem on page 10, but nobody wanted to talk about that. It's Friday nite and Bugara doesn't want to post either. I also mentioned Arizona, and my proposed referendum too.
So how about Catalan. Seems they want to seceed from Spain. So what is gonna be on their ballot?
1. Join Italy
2. Join Morocco
...
3. Become Independent
Btw, these are for sure not the Russian servicemen, probably members of the disbanded Ukranian riot police (Berkut).
Wait...What?
I don't get it. If Putin is doing everything fair and square, then why does every single soldier shown on Eastern border of Ukraine or inside Crimea have ski masks to hide their identity. Plus the Russian soldiers are wearing unmarked uniforms with no insignias like special forces. These are certainly not police. Maybe they hide their faces to avoid reprisals or problems with the Russian mafia. Putin is afraid of populist overthrow of his own government. Much like what just happen to the puppet leader of Ukraine when all this mess began. Putin is making a big mistake if he gets too greedy...blowback is a bitch.
But in reality all Police State militant countries are terrified of populist overthrow. America spends more than the rest of world combined on military spending and has the highest incarceration rate in the world...we too could end like Ukraine as could other nations in the West if the elitists continue to ignore poverty and mass unemployment. Sending jobs to third world slave labor sweatshops is not working out quite so well after all. So much for our wonderful Global World Economy that serves the needs of the Corporatists, while leaving slave labor sweatshop workers with deformed hands for life. But of course the Media will keep that a secret.
Btw, these are for sure not the Russian servicemen, probably members of the disbanded Ukranian riot police (Berkut).
Wait...What?
I don't get it. If Putin is doing everything fair and square, then why does every single soldier shown on Eastern border of Ukraine or inside Crimea have ski masks to hide their identity. Plus the Russian soldiers are wearing unmarked uniforms with no insignias like special forces. These are certainly not police. Maybe they hide their faces to avoid reprisals or problems with the Russian mafia. Putin is afraid of populist overthrow of his own government. Much like what just happen to the puppet leader of Ukraine when all this mess began. Putin is making a big mistake if he gets too greedy...blowback is a bitch.
sorry to say but you are all wrong.
First of all, the RA soldiers on the Eastern border of Ukraine don't wear masks although such masks are included in the uniform set as it could be pretty cold this time of year. Btw, the US army has neck gaiters in their uniform sets as well that could be used as same type of mask.
Second, the guys on the photos I posted are definetly not the Russian servicemen as they have different uniform, equipment and armament. They are most likely former servicemen of the Ukranian riot-police units (Berkut) that were loyal to the regime by the end and because of that were disbanded with one of the first legal act of the provisional goverment (along with cancelling the Russian language as beeing the official regional language in Ukraine). The RF offered them the Russian citizenship and support if they will defend Crimea and quite a number of them fled to Crimea to be a backbone of the Crimean self-defence units. Btw they were the ones who were shooting in the air when the Ukranian army unarmed column was trying to get into that airfield. And yes, they really hate all these west Ukranian rebels after standing 2 month under molotov cocktails and sniper fire in the end.
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