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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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jakebullet70

Rep: 37.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

Am I the only one that feels like it takes 3 or 4 Panzer MK4 to take out a Churchill?
I mean I feel like I am using Shermans to hunt tigers...  LOL    Shocked
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 8.1
votes: 9


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

I have never found them reliable in all CC iterations (paper armor, not a one shot one kill gun). I prefer to choose a pz III which at least is faster and I dont feel disapointed when is blown up by the enemy.
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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 54.8
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

If you mean that it takes that many Mk4 to take out the Crocodiles, that may be true. I don't find the other versions any real problem although I prefer to get at least two firing at one at the same time if possible. Even firing on the Croc the crews generally complain that they can't hurt it but I make them fire anyway. After a few hits they pretty much render it inoperable.


"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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vobbnobb

Rep: 67.5
votes: 6


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

I would never attack a tank like that from front unless I had a Tiger or maybe Panther. Very Happy I personally get troops to fire at it with indirect fire at the same time, I use a tank or AT teams on it. After about 10 seconds I have troops fall back quick under smoke cover. This confuses tank crew as it would in real life too many targets.  Usually the tank will turn exposing it's sides or rear and sometimes try to chase after your fleeing soldiers. Then pop out hiding unit and nail the churchill on weak points. There are many ways..


My WW2 CC Series TimeLine
http://tinyurl.com/n2vrec5
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jakebullet70

Rep: 37.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

I do try and chase it down with at least 2 tanks.  It just seems to kill one then the other.
Even the Stug's seems to die from a single shot of the Churchill
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

jakebullet70 wrote (View Post):
I do try and chase it down with at least 2 tanks.  It just seems to kill one then the other.
Even the Stug's seems to die from a single shot of the Churchill

if you talk about Churchill III with 6-pdr gun, they were equipped with APDS ammo that could penetrate PzIV/StuG/Tiger at 600m no problem but (!!!) if it hits which was very unlikely as accuracy was twice as bad as with normal APCBC shell. It is done wrong in GTC now Smile.

On the other hand, Churchill III armour is too weak in GTC Wink.
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vobbnobb

Rep: 67.5
votes: 6


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:49 am Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

That's only if the churchhill doesn't miss the 75mm on it is horrible at standoff. Also not if the Tiger gets the first shot off, especially if crew has an HE loaded..


My WW2 CC Series TimeLine
http://tinyurl.com/n2vrec5
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jakebullet70

Rep: 37.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:54 am Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

Quote:
if you talk about Churchill III with 6-pdr gun, they were equipped with APDS ammo that could penetrate PzIV/StuG/Tiger at 600m no problem


Wow, the 6-pdr, which I believe was 57mm at 600 meters? Well I guess the Russian ZiS-2 could do the same.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1943_(ZiS-2)]ZiS-2[/url]
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

Quote:
Wow, the 6-pdr, which I believe was 57mm at 600 meters? Well I guess the Russian ZiS-2 could do the same.

yes, with sub-caliber ammunition. ZIS-2 had pretty same penetration capability as 6-pdr.
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Cathartes

Rep: 101.3
votes: 15


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

Quote:
if it hits which was very unlikely as accuracy was twice as bad as with normal APCBC shell. It is done wrong in GTC now


not done wrong.  the reduced accuracy of APDS is reflected in the data.  twice as bad is a pretty vague generalization.  What data (more than one source me hopes) and what precise variables?
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

Cathartes wrote (View Post):
Quote:
if it hits which was very unlikely as accuracy was twice as bad as with normal APCBC shell. It is done wrong in GTC now

not done wrong.  the reduced accuracy of APDS is reflected in the data.  twice as bad is a pretty vague generalization.  What data (more than one source me hopes) and what precise variables?

no, twice as bad accuracy of APDS (both 6 and 17pdr) in comparison to ACPBC = results of test firings in Normandy (Balleroy, Isigny 2 times) against captured German vehicles.
pinpointing was not possible even at 200m, needed to aim at the center of mass to have a chance to score a hit.
actually that was the reason why no other country followed APDS till late 50s when the PROBLEM of discarding sabot was solved.
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Cathartes

Rep: 101.3
votes: 15


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

nothing conclisve whatseover from your citation, and yet gunners from British 6 pdrs repeatedly scored debilitating hits against German tanks during Epsom. your interpretation will be interesting.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

Quote:
nothing conclisve whatseover from your citation,

be my guest to check these reports as they are available online.

Quote:
and yet gunners from British 6 pdrs repeatedly scored debilitating hits against German tanks during Epsom. your interpretation will be interesting.

what shell did they fire? what range?
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fry30

Rep: 2.3


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer Mk4... The new sherman? Reply with quote

Man Dima, you certainly are infallible. I've never seen you make a mistake.
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