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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

We are to be impressed with Putin!

Thanx for that link Dima; its a must read: http://www.rferl.org/content/life-expectancy-cis-report/24946030.html



Let’s look at another subject, where Putin-Russia stands out.

Corruption!

Russia is ranked 35 in the world on corruption. That’s not bad is it?
Na, see, being No:1 is not the best, but the worst.
Being at the end of the list at rank 180 would be the best.

There Putin-Russia is at Rank 35, amongst Sierra Leone, and Timor…

Actually Pakistan is at rank 43 LOL, thus outperforms Russia… Bangladesh at rank 45, Uganda at 46, Nigeria at rank 47… Now there’s some countries that Putin Russia should have as role models.  Laughing

And now Putin-Russia is to export its superior tec, culture and socio/economic models to its neighbours.



Link: http://www.ranker.com/list/the-most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world/info-lists?limit=100
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Hay Troger!

Troger wrote (View Post):
I'd disagree with you that Europe doesn't have to deal with Russia.  


Hm, I actually said:
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
But we the Europeans, have to deal with both.

So I agree with you. We the European have to deal with BOTH the 30% of Americans that might just win the next election and the Russians.


Err, you're right! Reading comprehension fail on my part.  Either way, I wasn't aiming my response directly at you. I just wish public outrage would be directed at the many business ties between many EU nations and Russia.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Troger wrote (View Post):
You tell me how a Dutch politician (or any EU politician) with any conscious can continue the import of Russian gas (which only serves to fund a corrupt Russian society)? It's the U.S. that doesn't have to deal with them, and yet the Obama administration has been quicker to condemn and respond to Russian aggression than any European nation.


I’m Swede, part Finland.
We have dealt with Russia for 400 years or more, long before America was a nation.
As soon as we have a problem, we just have to scratch the surface at it and there is a little Russian tsar popping out, whit, red or brown. No matter color they are the same.  
As a nation, we would not ever trust Russia, plugging in to Russian gas was just a laugh here… And we rolled our eyes when Germans et al went for that idea.  

But here we are.


Again, sorry, that "you" wasn't directed at you.  

It seems we should take a page from the Swedish/Finnish approach.  Russia doesn't deserve to be treated as a trusthworthy peer, especially not as long as comrade Putler is in office.  
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jakebullet70

Rep: 37.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Russian are to be happy, they only have to deal with the American right wing- religious- war- mongering idiots.
Americans should be happy too, they only have to deal with the cultural- and tecnologically- always five step behind, agressive -expanding-neo-empire-nationalistic Russians.

But we the Europeans, have to deal with both.


Had to laugh at that one!!!
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Stalk,
Quote:
Let’s look at another subject, where Putin-Russia stands out.
Corruption!
Russia is ranked 35 in the world on corruption. That’s not bad is it?
Na, see, being No:1 is not the best, but the worst.
Being at the end of the list at rank 180 would be the best.
There Putin-Russia is at Rank 35, amongst Sierra Leone, and Timor…
Actually Pakistan is at rank 43 LOL, thus outperforms Russia… Bangladesh at rank 45, Uganda at 46, Nigeria at rank 47… Now there’s some countries that Putin Russia should have as role models.  
And now Putin-Russia is to export its superior tec, culture and socio/economic models to its neighbours.
Link: http://www.ranker.com/list/the-most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world/info-lists?limit=100  

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2010/results
According to the Transparence International Corruption Perceptions Index Russia went from place 154 (out of 178) in 2010 to place 127 (out of 175) in 2013.
So it's obvious we are fighting the corruption here slowly Wink
While in same time f.e. Ukraine went from place 134 (out of 178) in 2010 to place 144 (out of 175) in 2013.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Dima mate

Dima wrote (View Post):
Yes, I think it's good that after 23 years we already have 6 companies in the World top 100 as in 1991 Russia was deserted like after the big WAR with factories not working, salaries not paid and empty stocks in stores. .


Yes, if Russia would have 6 companies on the world top 100 [top one hundred] ranking after 23 years that would have been a bit impressing.

But, see, the list seems to suggest that Russia does not have a single company on the World Top 100 rank.
I said that Russia had 6 companies on the world top 500 [five hundred] list. The Russian companies on the world top 500 rank:

Rank; Company; type
106 Sper bank
316 Magnit
406 MTS
423 Beeline
457 VTB bank
470 mega

Or did I miss something?



However, let’s look at China and compare that old commy with supa-grate-Putin-Russia.

I don’t think anyone would seriously argue that china was a powerhouse in the 1980 th. At the same time Russia had an industry, and infrastructure (roads, tele, and electricity).
So, how has China faired and developed since then? We do not count company’s in natural resources as they are considered just “luck”.

China company’s on the world top 500 rank, year 2014 data:

Rank; Company; type
13 China Mobile
30 ICBC
51 China Construction Bank
58 China agriculture bank
61 Bank of china
66 China Unicom
75 China telecom
92 China Sinopec
95 China life Ins

Wow, China now has 9 company’s on the world top 100… But they have even more on the top 500:

125 Pingan
128 China state construct
135 Huawei
161 QQ
179 Bank of cmunications
206 Jardines
239 China …
251 CNOOC
261 Baidu
300 Chow Tai Fook
309 China Minsheng ..
319 3 Mobile
333 CPIC
...
..
..
...
..
..

Ohh, I stop at rank 333, its so many Chines comapnys on the World top 500 that I just get bored listing them, anyone who has the time may count them and report how many they are… ? LOL

http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/table/global-500-2014

So how does Super-Power-Putin-Russia fair in an comparison with commy China… ?
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
Stalk,
Quote:
Let’s look at another subject, where Putin-Russia stands out.
Corruption!
Russia is ranked 35 in the world on corruption. That’s not bad is it?
Na, see, being No:1 is not the best, but the worst.
Being at the end of the list at rank 180 would be the best.
There Putin-Russia is at Rank 35, amongst Sierra Leone, and Timor…
Actually Pakistan is at rank 43 LOL, thus outperforms Russia… Bangladesh at rank 45, Uganda at 46, Nigeria at rank 47… Now there’s some countries that Putin Russia should have as role models.  
And now Putin-Russia is to export its superior tec, culture and socio/economic models to its neighbours.
Link: http://www.ranker.com/list/the-most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world/info-lists?limit=100  

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2010/results
According to the Transparence International Corruption Perceptions Index Russia went from place 154 (out of 178) in 2010 to place 127 (out of 175) in 2013.
So it's obvious we are fighting the corruption here slowly Wink
While in same time f.e. Ukraine went from place 134 (out of 178) in 2010 to place 144 (out of 175) in 2013.


Whooohoooo

LOL, okay, the Corruption list you link to is turned up side down. Where beeing in No 1 is the best and being number 178 is the worst... (lets remember that)
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2010/results

So according to that list:
In 2010, Putin Russia was on Place 24 from the bottom... (178-154=24)
And in 2013 Supa Putin made a improvement to place 48 from the bottom….  (175-127=48)

In 2013 Russia had the same corruption level as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Mali, Lebanon, Gambia, and Nicaragua…  

Well done Supa-Putin.
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Gunsche

Rep: 18.3


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

How about getting back to MH17?
Get a room guys  Wink

Can't see what the Unkrainian seps and Russians would gain by shooting down an civilian airliner. If they did it was most likely by misstake. Human or equipment error?

The Ukranian gov would actually benefit it the blame landed on the seps and the Russians. The world (west world) opinion of Russia is pretty low already with countries screaming about sanctions all the time already, putting more pressure on Russia would only do Kiev good.

Most likely we will never get to hear the true version of the incident...


A stupid gigant working on INSIS: 'It Never Snows In September' a mod for LSA. Check my forum thread for details : http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10178
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Sry.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

So today the Ukranian National Security and Defence Speaker A.Lysenko said that Ukraine didn't blame Russia for shooting down MH17...
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Where did you hear/read that? Today Andriy Lysenko claimed that the two Ukrainian fighter jets that were downed yesterday were taken out by missiles fired by the Russian military in Russia.  

I think people know that the Russia military wasn't the one that downed MH17.  But it is Russia that equipped the Ukrainian nationals (who are ethnically Russian) with the weaponry (among many other things) used to down that plane.
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mooxe

Rep: 213
votes: 25


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:01 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Yeah I Google'd what Dima said and couldn't find that anywhere.

I am happy Dima is here though telling us his thoughts on these matters. There's no other Russians to do this at CCS. I am finding it increasingly amusing though that ever since Crimea happened Dima has basically been towing the party line of, "Its not Russia." At first it was "there's no Russian troops in Crimea" to "there's no build of troops on the border" to "we had no role in MH17" ... I mean really... Is Russia just ignoring the civil war right on their doorstep, business as usual move along please?

Is Russia doing ANYTHING at all?
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:47 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Troger wrote (View Post):
Where did you hear/read that? Today Andriy Lysenko claimed that the two Ukrainian fighter jets that were downed yesterday were taken out by missiles fired by the Russian military in Russia.  

http://fraza.ua/news/24.07.14/202111/my_ne_obvinyali_rossiyu_v_krushenii_boeing_a_lish_ozvuchili_odnu_iz_versiy_lysenko_.html
http://glagol.in.ua/2014/07/24/snbo-ukraina-ne-obvinyala-rf-v-krushenii-boeing/
http://ria.ru/world/20140724/1017367620.html

2 days ago when militia shot down 2 Su-25 ground attack planes Ukraine blamde Russia for firing rockets from it's own territory but yesterday Lysenko told they didn't on a same briefing:
http://telegraf.com.ua/ukraina/obshhestvo/1394039-snbo-ukraina-ne-obvinyala-rf-v-tom-chto-ona-sbivala-samoletyi-su-25.html
 
Quote:
I think people know that the Russia military wasn't the one that downed MH17.  But it is Russia that equipped the Ukrainian nationals (who are ethnically Russian) with the weaponry (among many other things) used to down that plane

Russia refuses supplying Buk to militia, and the only prove Ukraine provided with Buk 312 (and this was used by the US as well) appeared to be frauded https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtAh0dKIUAAx4NN.jpg.


.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
I am finding it increasingly amusing though that ever since Crimea happened Dima has basically been towing the party line of, "Its not Russia." At first it was "there's no Russian troops in Crimea" to "there's no build of troops on the border"

check my posts about Crimea, I was telling that officially that wasn't Russia but that was obviously it was.
there are still no satellite photos proving concetration of the Russian troops at the border..

Quote:
to "we had no role in MH17" ... I mean really... Is Russia just ignoring the civil war right on their doorstep, business as usual move along please?

I never posted that but told that I'd wait for the report of comission sent to investigate this case.

Quote:
Is Russia doing ANYTHING at all?

yes, I will tell you a story:
one of my employee (30 yo) beeing ethnical Ukranian from a village next to Slavyanks has a discussion in his family and decided that it could be wise to join militia there and when SEU would get independancy they could probably get some benefits like land or something.
so in late April he went there but the Russian border guards didn't let him pass the border as he was young and couldn't explain why he wanted to go there so he understood that there is no direct support of militia by Russia and it could be quite dangerous to go there throught fields and woods avoiding border crossing points and went back to Kaliningrad.

and militia keeps blaming Russia for not supplying new ATGMs as the ones they use from the Ukranian stocks are mainly "rotten" and like half of them don't explode so they don't have adequate AT weapons.

On July 22nd Russia sent back to Ukraine (by the Ukranian army transport plane) 18 Ukranian wounded soldiers who were treated in the Russian hospital and a body of dead soldier who died of severe wounds. They were pushed to the Russian territory on July 16th during combat with militia.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Ohh, today several Russian media resources started to post a leak from the Ukranian defence forces that the Ukranians shot down MH17 accidentally while checking the Buk systems after redeployment.
Let's see how it goes though - could be another fake...
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zwizdan007

Rep: 1


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Here is my post from 20th July. I am still confident that investigation will prove this.

zwizdan007 wrote (View Post):
Possibility that MH was shot down by AA missile should also be taken into consideration.

My personal opinion, after collecting info from different sources, is that goverment forces shot down MH17.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

zwizdan007 wrote (View Post):
Here is my post from 20th July. I am still confident that investigation will prove this.
zwizdan007 wrote (View Post):
Possibility that MH was shot down by AA missile should also be taken into consideration.
My personal opinion, after collecting info from different sources, is that goverment forces shot down MH17.

yes, some parts show a nature of damage usually inflicted by A-A missles which have core-type fragments while S-A missiles have ball-type fragments and powerfull shock wave.
but a problem is that there are round holes in some parts as well...
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Cathartes

Rep: 101.3
votes: 15


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
Yeah I Google'd what Dima said and couldn't find that anywhere.

I am happy Dima is here though telling us his thoughts on these matters. There's no other Russians to do this at CCS. I am finding it increasingly amusing though that ever since Crimea happened Dima has basically been towing the party line of, "Its not Russia." At first it was "there's no Russian troops in Crimea" to "there's no build of troops on the border" to "we had no role in MH17" ... I mean really... Is Russia just ignoring the civil war right on their doorstep, business as usual move along please?

Is Russia doing ANYTHING at all?


I thought this opinion piece in the Washington Post was interesting.  It's a rather simplified, US-centric opinion, but it makes some sense based on what we've read in this thread:
It’s not just about the Malaysian flight. Russians are living in an alternate reality.
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 photo.

Wikipedia MH 17 Info

Wikipedia

"MH17 is the deadliest airliner shootdown in history.[20]"



Boeing_777-2H6ER_9M-MRD_Malaysian_(6658105143).jpg
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Boeing_777-2H6ER_9M-MRD_Malaysian_(6658105143).jpg






Close Combat's most infamous SOB
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Cathartes wrote (View Post):
I thought this opinion piece in the Washington Post was interesting.  It's a rather simplified, US-centric opinion, but it makes some sense based on what we've read in this thread:
It’s not just about the Malaysian flight. Russians are living in an alternate reality.

I actually tend to agree to that.
today I had a big argument with my employees explaining them why can't we just invade and occupy Ukraine. Had a hard time explaining them that when you have an economics like Russia and all the foreign payments go through New York you should sit on your ass and breath calm even if you have enough nukes to kill the World.
And I agree that most of the Russian population is really living in the alternate reality.

But that doesn't prove anything about MH17....
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Dima old mate

Dima wrote (View Post):
Cathartes wrote (View Post):
I thought this opinion piece in the Washington Post was interesting.  It's a rather simplified, US-centric opinion, but it makes some sense based on what we've read in this thread:
It’s not just about the Malaysian flight. Russians are living in an alternate reality.

I actually tend to agree to that.
today I had a big argument with my employees explaining them why can't we just invade and occupy Ukraine. Had a hard time explaining them that when you have an economics like Russia and all the foreign payments go through New York you should sit on your ass and breath calm even if you have enough nukes to kill the World.
And I agree that most of the Russian population is really living in the alternate reality.

But that doesn't prove anything about MH17....


I made a seperate thread to cover whats going on in Russia, to keep this thread cleaner:
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10610
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