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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):

And I agree that most of the Russian population is really living in the alternate reality.


But yet you still hand out the explanations for MH17 that come from your government, and of course excuse Russia from wrongdoing in every conversation?  I guess the alternate reality you are referring to is in regards to other aspects such as domestic politics, and not about Russia's history and it's role in world events--the Russian populace seem to form a united front on those issues.

By the way, I think you should reconsider the hiring of your "ethnic Ukrainian" employee, he sounds like an opportunist with identity problems (ready to kill other Ukrainians so he can get land?).  Story sounds like bullshit (like the other ones), but if it's true, tell him that 15-year minimum prison sentences (or worse) await traitors like him.  

Cathartes wrote (View Post):

I thought this opinion piece in the Washington Post was interesting.  It's a rather simplified, US-centric opinion, but it makes some sense based on what we've read in this thread:
It’s not just about the Malaysian flight. Russians are living in an alternate reality.


More on the the topic of Russian "news" regarding MH17: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-m-f-platt/russian-media-on-malaysia_b_5603733.html
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Quote:
But yet you still hand out the explanations for MH17 that come from your government, and of course excuse Russia from wrongdoing in every conversation?

do I? what I said that I'd wait for investigation before blaming anyone.
looking at it from a different angle - you are the guy believing in no-proves statements by your goverment although they have already lied to you openly a couple of times to start wars. That's the first time Russia started to react on the White House briefings and all they can provide are photos from social media pages and their believes. Man, CIA has more budged than Russian Army and they can't provide any prove?!

Quote:
I guess the alternate reality you are referring to is in regards to other aspects such as domestic politics, and not about Russia's history and it's role in world events--the Russian populace seem to form a united front on those issues.

no, the Russian population is divided on the history of XX century for sure.

Quote:
By the way, I think you should reconsider the hiring of your "ethnic Ukrainian" employee, he sounds like an opportunist with identity problems (ready to kill other Ukrainians so he can get land?).  Story sounds like bullshit (like the other ones), but if it's true, tell him that 15-year minimum prison sentences (or worse) await traitors like him.

I told a story it's up to you to believe it or not.
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
Quote:
But yet you still hand out the explanations for MH17 that come from your government, and of course excuse Russia from wrongdoing in every conversation?

do I? what I said that I'd wait for investigation before blaming anyone.
looking at it from a different angle - you are the guy believing in no-proves statements by your goverment although they have already lied to you openly a couple of times to start wars. That's the first time Russia started to react on the White House briefings and all they can provide are photos from social media pages and their believes. Man, CIA has more budged than Russian Army and they can't provide any prove?!


We will never have 100% proof Dima.  U.S. intelligence is not fool-proof, that's for sure, but I think there is enough circumstantial evidence in this case--and for what it's worth, U.S. intelligence has confirmed who is at fault.  

No one is blaming Russian military for downing it, as Obama said, Russia is being blamed for "creating the conditions" that led to this.  

Dima wrote (View Post):
Quote:
By the way, I think you should reconsider the hiring of your "ethnic Ukrainian" employee, he sounds like an opportunist with identity problems (ready to kill other Ukrainians so he can get land?).  Story sounds like bullshit (like the other ones), but if it's true, tell him that 15-year minimum prison sentences (or worse) await traitors like him.

I told a story it's up to you to believe it or not.


I hope it's not true.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Troger wrote (View Post):
Dima wrote (View Post):
Quote:
But yet you still hand out the explanations for MH17 that come from your government, and of course excuse Russia from wrongdoing in every conversation?

do I? what I said that I'd wait for investigation before blaming anyone.
looking at it from a different angle - you are the guy believing in no-proves statements by your goverment although they have already lied to you openly a couple of times to start wars. That's the first time Russia started to react on the White House briefings and all they can provide are photos from social media pages and their believes. Man, CIA has more budged than Russian Army and they can't provide any prove?!

We will never have 100% proof Dima.  U.S. intelligence is not fool-proof, that's for sure, but I think there is enough circumstantial evidence in this case--and for what it's worth, U.S. intelligence has confirmed who is at fault.  
No one is blaming Russian military for downing it, as Obama said, Russia is being blamed for "creating the conditions" that led to this.

Ok, it's obvious that Ukraine created the conditions by breaking the cease fire in late June. Sounds good?


Quote:
Dima wrote (View Post):
Quote:
By the way, I think you should reconsider the hiring of your "ethnic Ukrainian" employee, he sounds like an opportunist with identity problems (ready to kill other Ukrainians so he can get land?).  Story sounds like bullshit (like the other ones), but if it's true, tell him that 15-year minimum prison sentences (or worse) await traitors like him.

I told a story it's up to you to believe it or not.

I hope it's not true.
[/quote]
you can do whatever.
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
Ok, it's obvious that Ukraine created the conditions by breaking the cease fire in late June. Sounds good?


The rebels never agreed to a cease fire and so they never honored it.  The Ukrainian military units that tried to abide by it ended up suffering because of it.  There really wasn't a cease fire to break.

Point is, these rebels wouldn't be anywhere if it weren't for support from Russia, they would have been mopped up a month ago.
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dj

Rep: 157.5
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

CNN showed story today of Ukrainian family that flew in all the way from Australia to try to search for their missing daughter.  They made it to the crash site, laid flowers...and still are attempting to find her remains.  The Rebel commanders are getting annoyed with all the international presence and media.  This could get ugly...as pressure mounts to do an international forensic investigation.
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Captain-Insano

Rep: 3.5


PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

This is a real interesting exchange between AP reporter Matt Lee and State Department spokesperson Marie Harf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQRvINebeok Cudos to Matt for breaking the dont ask dont tell policy between our media and government. Also here is a great article by Paul Craig Roberts http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/26/world-doomed-western-insouciance-paul-craig-roberts/
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dj

Rep: 157.5
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Dick Cheney and his henchman Wolfowitz are pieces of shit and pathological liars.  Here we go again with the comparisons between U.S. aggression in Iraq and Russian aggression in Ukraine.  It's not a valid analogy.  Those trolls are long gone...although they are desperate to drum up consensus for more wars, re-invade Iraq, invade Ukraine, their power is isolated to the right-wing media bubble controlled by Murdoch.  

The current U.S. policy is that of risk aversion, and de-escalation of wars. America is dangerously close to bankruptcy and still nowhere even close to paying off the Debt from Iraq and Afganistan (which are not even resolved yet anyways).  

The only "teeth" in this so called aggression towards Russia are sanctions.  And in reality it is up the EU to impose serious sanctions.  America is not that much of an essential trading partner with Russia in comparison to the EU.
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
Dick Cheney and his henchman Wolfowitz are pieces of shit and pathological liars.  Here we go again with the comparisons between U.S. aggression in Iraq and Russian aggression in Ukraine.  It's not a valid analogy.  Those trolls are long gone...although they are desperate to drum up consensus for more wars, re-invade Iraq, invade Ukraine, their power is isolated to the right-wing media bubble controlled by Murdoch.  

The current U.S. policy is that of risk aversion, and de-escalation of wars. America is dangerously close to bankruptcy and still nowhere even close to paying off the Debt from Iraq and Afganistan (which are not even resolved yet anyways).  

The only "teeth" in this so called aggression towards Russia are sanctions.  And in reality it is up the EU to impose serious sanctions.  America is not that much of an essential trading partner with Russia in comparison to the EU.


Yup!
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
Dick Cheney and his henchman Wolfowitz are pieces of shit and pathological liars.  Here we go again with the comparisons between U.S. aggression in Iraq and Russian aggression in Ukraine.  It's not a valid analogy.   


I agree DJ.
We have to thank a diversified and free media for that. No?
There are no free media in Russia to do the same there.

There is also a profound difference between the USA wars and the Russian wars.
Russia invades Afghan, why, for making it a Soviet satellite = empire buliding.
USA invades Afghan, why, for Taliban dint hand over bin ladin. US have no intention of making Afghan its 51 st state.
Russia invades Crimea, why, to make it a part of the Russian empire  = empire buliding.
USA invaded Iraq, why, … for whatever stupid reasons it was not to make it into the n’th state of USA..
Russia in Ukraine  = empire buliding.
Etc etc..


Abaut sanctions. Look at the result of US sanctions vs Japan and the road to PH.
What will be the result of serious sanctions vs russia?
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Captain-Insano

Rep: 3.5


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Quote:
the current U.S. policy is that of risk aversion, and de-escalation of wars
i disagree the policy seems to be regime change done clandestinely by using local forces funded by US government. This is a tactic thats been used repeatedly in the post ww2 era such as how they trained, armed, funded the contras rebels, libyan rebel forces and now the right sector and svoboda in the ukraine. it's not much different than how they funded/armed the afghans against the soviets and the northern alliance against the taliban just way more secret. Here is a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-RyOaFwcEw to a compilation video of us involvement in ukraine. they do a great job of sourcing their information. it's an hour long but worth the watch, i myself don't agree with everything in it but it's super informative, i had never even heard of svoboda or right sector until i watched it. i thought the highlights were the first 10 minutes by SCG and the ron paul interview on fox business as well as the denis kucinich interview on fox. also worth noting is a lot of reports by rt which is funded by the russian government, i'm not saying i disagree with whats being reported just that it needs to noted.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

So where are proves that Putin has shot down a plane?
I recall they told us it will take 2 days...
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dj

Rep: 157.5
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Nobody is saying it was regular Russian forces that shot down the plane.  The separatists maybe had advisors sent from Russia or possibly AA equipment supplied by Russia.  Everything has gone quiet now on BOTH Malaysian airline tragedies.  Still trying to find out what happened to the first jet that may or may not have crashed into Indian ocean.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
Nobody is saying it was regular Russian forces that shot down the plane.  The separatists maybe had advisors sent from Russia or possibly AA equipment supplied by Russia.  Everything has gone quiet now on BOTH Malaysian airline tragedies.  Still trying to find out what happened to the first jet that may or may not have crashed into Indian ocean.

June-July 2014

Is Putin's Non-Denial An Admission That Russia Shot Down MH17?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/30/is-putins-non-denial-an-admission-that-russia-shot-down-mh17/
 
Miscalculation. Failure. Escalation - Why Putin Shot Down MH-17
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2014/07/26/why-putin-shot-down-mh-17/
 
Cameron tells Putin shooting down of MH17 was 'unacceptable'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/cameron-putin-shooting-down-malaysia-airlines-mh17-unacceptable
 
August 2014

Contrary to the Obama administration’s public claims blaming eastern Ukrainian rebels and Russia for the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, some U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/flight-mh17-shoot-down-scenario-shifts/5394746
 
Why have the media and Obama administration gone silent on MH17?
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/18/ukmh-a18.html
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dj

Rep: 157.5
votes: 9


PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

Those are Partisan activist sources.  Forbes is primarily slanted right-wing organization serving Country-Club elitist Partisans that only care about how to make $.  WSWS is Socialist activist organization that wants to slam Obama & destroy the party to promote the rise of Socialism.

Any serious journalist would recognize that there isn't sufficient evidence yet to point fingers.  The forensic examination of the flight recorder takes a long time...and still will not prove whom fired the AA missile(s).
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Malasian Airlines MH17 Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
Those are Partisan activist sources.  Forbes is primarily slanted right-wing organization serving Country-Club elitist Partisans that only care about how to make $.  WSWS is Socialist activist organization that wants to slam Obama & destroy the party to promote the rise of Socialism.
Any serious journalist would recognize that there isn't sufficient evidence yet to point fingers.  The forensic examination of the flight recorder takes a long time...and still will not prove whom fired the AA missile(s).

yeah sure, made a quick google search:

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