"...The memo said one image provides evidence that Russian forces have "fired across the border at Ukrainian military forces and that Russian-backed separatists have used heavy artillery provided by Russia in attacks on Ukrainian forces from inside Ukraine."
Another satellite image depicted in the memo shows "ground scarring at multiple rocket launch sites on the Russian side of the border oriented in the direction of Ukraine military units within Ukraine."
"The wide areas of impact near the Ukrainian military units indicates fire from multiple rocket launchers," the memo said."
And tomorrow they'll probably say the same missile launchers knocked down MH17, day after that they were on the grassy knoll... lets face it the US is pouring ammo in to Israel to blow up kids, the US moral high ground has become the Mariannas trench
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
You can give a hundred examples of how they lost moral high ground. Do we really want to look at which countries sells arm and ammunition to other countries who used them to kill innocent people?
"...The memo said one image provides evidence that Russian forces have "fired across the border at Ukrainian military forces and that Russian-backed separatists have used heavy artillery provided by Russia in attacks on Ukrainian forces from inside Ukraine."
Another satellite image depicted in the memo shows "ground scarring at multiple rocket launch sites on the Russian side of the border oriented in the direction of Ukraine military units within Ukraine."
"The wide areas of impact near the Ukrainian military units indicates fire from multiple rocket launchers," the memo said."
And tomorrow they'll probably say the same missile launchers knocked down MH17, day after that they were on the grassy knoll... lets face it the US is pouring ammo in to Israel to blow up kids, the US moral high ground has become the Mariannas trench
You're right in one respect Southern, but these type of comments don't seem to serve any purpose but to derail the conversation. It's also a pretty common tactic that Russians use in their misinformation campaign (you a closet commie!? I heard Stalin is looking for a map maker! ).
We are talking about the Ukraine. We are talking about Russia's interference in Ukrainian affairs. We are talking about the Russians giving a highly sophisticated weapon system to a bunch of Cossack dogs who were sent there by Russia--they then accidentally shot down a civilian airliner with that weapon system.
The U.S. has made some bad foreign policy decisions, but I don't think they really on Russia's level. Russia, the place that has been ruled by a former KGB dictator for the last 15 years, is a practical one-party state, censors its news and replaces it with pure bullshit, and on and on. Nah, the U.S. is bad, but not that bad. Not to mention, the U.S., every once in a while (or at least a part of its population), can admit when it's wrong--accounting for their actions is something that the Russian government or most "mainstream" Russians seem to be utterly incapable of doing.
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
Dima, did you see the satellite imagery evidence of rocket launchers inside Russian border fired against Ukrainian forces? Probably was censored. Also we hear reports of Russian advisors having to train the separatists whom probably have no clue how to use SA high altitude rockets. Ukrainian-American journalist whom was detained, punched and beaten already by separatists had proof that one of the Russian soldiers he previously filmed in Georgia was caught on camera inside Ukrainian territory.
Putin is being very cautious but evidence is mounting that Russia is providing much more assistance to rebel forces than it may appear to the Russian people. It's just common sense, if Russia stands to gain, territory beyond Crimea...of course they would want to do everything they can to help their comrades.
Dima, did you see the satellite imagery evidence of rocket launchers inside Russian border fired against Ukrainian forces? Probably was censored.
why would you think those images were censored?! they don't show anything but speculations for Ukranian and US grunts - just populizm.
Quote:
Also we hear reports of Russian advisors having to train the separatists whom probably have no clue how to use SA high altitude rockets.
again, such technics as Buk is operated by 1-2 years drafted soldiers. So there are millions of Buk operators in ex-USSR.
Quote:
Ukrainian-American journalist whom was detained, punched and beaten already by separatists had proof that one of the Russian soldiers he previously filmed in Georgia was caught on camera inside Ukrainian territory.
ahha among those 1mln servicemen currently in the Russian army he had spotted the right guy....don't you think it's kind of?
Quote:
Putin is being very cautious but evidence is mounting that Russia is providing much more assistance to rebel forces than it may appear to the Russian people. It's just common sense, if Russia stands to gain, territory beyond Crimea...of course they would want to do everything they can to help their comrades.
there is a webpage http://icorpus.ru/ where militiia GHQ posts reports each day.
and they all cry for ATGMs and fresh RPGs from Russia...and say that Russia betrayed them not sending good weapons and not coming with troops.
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
Dima, Simon Ostrovsky is the journalists name. He caught the Russian soldier on camera. He has numerous video posted on his experience in the Ukrainian war zone:
I personally saw the photographic evidence that Simon presented on television. Why would he fabricate this story and jeopardize his career?
Ok I cede the point about Russian military advisors required to train separatists on how to use SA rocket launchers. I think you are right and I am wrong. Indeed are something like over 1 million veterans in former USSR states that can easily train local militias how to use these mobile launchers.
Dima, Simon Ostrovsky is the journalists name. He caught the Russian soldier on camera. He has numerous video posted on his experience in the Ukrainian war zone:
I personally saw the photographic evidence that Simon presented on television. Why would he fabricate this story and jeopardize his career?
Ok I cede the point about Russian military advisors required to train separatists on how to use SA rocket launchers. I think you are right and I am wrong. Indeed are something like over 1 million veterans in former USSR states that can easily train local militias how to use these mobile launchers.
there were a number of fake photos from Georgia (2008) and Crimea (2014) shown by the Western journalists so I'd not be surprised.
do you have a direct link to that photo you mentioned above?
Ok I cede the point about Russian military advisors required to train separatists on how to use SA rocket launchers. I think you are right and I am wrong. Indeed are something like over 1 million veterans in former USSR states that can easily train local militias how to use these mobile launchers.
IIRC a couple of DNR/LNR military officials are ex-AA launchers operators.
Dima, Simon Ostrovsky is the journalists name. He caught the Russian soldier on camera. He has numerous video posted on his experience in the Ukrainian war zone:
I personally saw the photographic evidence that Simon presented on television. Why would he fabricate this story and jeopardize his career?
Ok I cede the point about Russian military advisors required to train separatists on how to use SA rocket launchers. I think you are right and I am wrong. Indeed are something like over 1 million veterans in former USSR states that can easily train local militias how to use these mobile launchers.
there were a number of fake photos from Georgia (2008) and Crimea (2014) shown by the Western journalists so I'd not be surprised.
do you have a direct link to that photo you mentioned above?
Dima - I knew you were going to ask that. I could not find it because it was on live television, Simon showed the photographs and explained the evidence. Wonder if he got pressured to back off when he was captured by the Separatists. Simon has some balls...very lucky the militia didn't kill him for being too aggressive with his reporting. What did you think of the videos? He seems to get respect by the local Ukrainians, I think he speaks Russian too. Let me see if I can find link for the evidence he mentioned.
Dima - I knew you were going to ask that. I could not find it because it was on live television, Simon showed the photographs and explained the evidence. Wonder if he got pressured to back off when he was captured by the Separatists. Simon has some balls...very lucky the militia didn't kill him for being too aggressive with his reporting. What did you think of the videos? He seems to get respect by the local Ukrainians, I think he speaks Russian too. Let me see if I can find link for the evidence he mentioned.
facts:
there was not a single case of any side journalist killed by militia during the conflict.
there are number of journalists killed by the Ukranian armed forces during the conflict and many more abducted, beaten, asked to say something on camera and then released.
he obviously has a Russian-jews surname so no wonder he speaks Russian.
if that was on the TV and wasn't a fake it should have been spread all over...
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
Dima, I live in Ukraine. I see Ukrainian news and you see Russian news... They are different.
I also read the BBC. ooohhh, I am wasting key strokes.
I speak to Ukrainian and Russians every day. Maybe the difference is I speak to poor Ukrainian and Russian's?
The man and woman on the street. Are you middle class? I think you are. My Ukraine brother works in Moscow because of no work here.
My former fiancee lives in Kazan? You are speaking middle class talk. I see it. I know, come down to the poor people.
That's 90% or Russia and Ukraine. My former fiancee says if people are making money they love Putin. but everyone in the villages
hates him. Is this true?
All I know is men can be crappy to each other. In a nutshell Politics sucks!!! We should not have boarders.
Nuff said.
Oh wait, a Russian-jews surname... really? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry to all, sorry, I find that SO funny.
.
That's 90% or Russia and Ukraine. My former fiancee says if people are making money they love Putin. but everyone in the villages
hates him. Is this true?
No, Putin's electorate is mainly old and poor people.
Quote:
Oh wait, a Russian-jews surname... really? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry to all, sorry, I find that SO funny.
yes like Khadorkovskiy, Berezovskiy, Zhirinovskiy, Pavlovskiy, etc.
.
That's 90% or Russia and Ukraine. My former fiancee says if people are making money they love Putin. but everyone in the villages
hates him. Is this true?
No, Putin's electorate is mainly old and poor people.
Quote:
Oh wait, a Russian-jews surname... really? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry to all, sorry, I find that SO funny.
yes like Khadorkovskiy, Berezovskiy, Zhirinovskiy, Pavlovskiy, etc.
Sounds exactly like the American Conservative right-wing base of voters, old and what we call "poor white trash" voters. Minority voters have only been allowed to vote for 40 years or so in the former rebel Confederate States, so they never vote for the party of old establishment.
"...The memo said one image provides evidence that Russian forces have "fired across the border at Ukrainian military forces and that Russian-backed separatists have used heavy artillery provided by Russia in attacks on Ukrainian forces from inside Ukraine."
Another satellite image depicted in the memo shows "ground scarring at multiple rocket launch sites on the Russian side of the border oriented in the direction of Ukraine military units within Ukraine."
"The wide areas of impact near the Ukrainian military units indicates fire from multiple rocket launchers," the memo said."
And tomorrow they'll probably say the same missile launchers knocked down MH17, day after that they were on the grassy knoll... lets face it the US is pouring ammo in to Israel to blow up kids, the US moral high ground has become the Mariannas trench
Not a fair comment SL. Obviously we lost the moral high ground when Stwa, John, Fox & their Friends advocated war in Iraq. The right-wing like Johnsilver say that America is "getting in the way of Israel". Then you claim we are helping them bomb kids. Neither of you are right. We give aid to both sides...probably more aid to Arab states vs Israel.
The truth is that Sec. Kerry got caught on open mic complaining & mocking Israel's alleged pinprick assaults on Gaza, after they bombed hospital. Hell of pinprick he said. That hardly is an indication that the current administration is biased against the Palestinians. The Administration is bullied by right-wing extremists that are desperate to start more wars in Mid-East or think that it's okay to choose sides.
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:30 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine
Right wing, left wing, middle wing... Russians, Americans, Germans, Ukrainians and lets toss in some Chinese and Japan.
Again
All I know is men can be crappy to each other. In a nutshell Politics sucks!!! Boarders? Really?
Nationalism is a religion. Your are born into it. You have no choice.
The Jews, Christians and Muslims claim the same God? Really? War? Really? Come on!!!! Same God?
Men can be crappy to each other. This world order is not working. It sucks.
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