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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:47 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

DUDE,
Whats the status?
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:09 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Seriously Dima, gives us a time-frame.  I take back all those things I said about Russia.  Smile  

If we don't get some sort of small fix, my money that I spent on Gateway to Caen will really be a waste.
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Looks like the UI issues I've posted are going to get fixed.

With that and this Mod I could see my interest for GWTC improving significantly.

Sorry to put you on the spot asking for an update.
Hopefully it coincides with the next patch from Matrix.
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stiener

Rep: 37.7
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

jumping in here about the 17 pdr and 6 pdr and the APDS ammo.......

i thought it was you dima or maybe it was nomada? that said that the APDS ammo was not present at all in either gun till july in normandy?

so im confused....6 pdr APDS was present in normandy for the invasion but 17 pdr APDS wasnt till july??

are you not using APDS in your historical realism mod??

are you also agreeing that regular AP ammo could take out a tiger or a panther in a frontal shot at CC ranges?


WHEN THE PIN IS PULLED "MR GRENADE"IS NOT OUR FRIEND !
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

stiener wrote (View Post):
jumping in here about the 17 pdr and 6 pdr and the APDS ammo.......
i thought it was you dima or maybe it was nomada? that said that the APDS ammo was not present at all in either gun till july in normandy?

no, 6pdr APDS ammunition was issued prior to DDay.

Quote:
so im confused....6 pdr APDS was present in normandy for the invasion but 17 pdr APDS wasnt till july??

17pdr APDS were issued to front units in August.

Quote:
are you not using APDS in your historical realism mod??

there are 6pdr APDS.

Quote:
are you also agreeing that regular AP ammo could take out a tiger or a panther in a frontal shot at CC ranges?

minimum chance vs Panther turret front at point blank range, no chance for hull armor.
minimum chance vs Tiger's hull front at point blank range, no chance for turret armor.
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Antony_nz

Rep: 79.6
votes: 6


PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Take your time. Perfect your craft.  Smile
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Jager

Rep: 21.2


PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Hi, Dima.

minimum chance vs Panther turret front at point blank range, no chance for hull armor.
minimum chance vs Tiger's hull front at point blank range, no chance for turret armor.

Do you mean both guns here?   Also rolled Tigers hull front seems to be more durable than cast mask with irregular thickness.
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stiener

Rep: 37.7
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

thanks for the clarification......
as Jager asked tho...what about the 6 pdr with APDS? will it pen a panther or a tiger front armour at CC ranges?


WHEN THE PIN IS PULLED "MR GRENADE"IS NOT OUR FRIEND !
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Jager wrote (View Post):

Do you mean both guns here?   Also rolled Tigers hull front seems to be more durable than cast mask with irregular thickness.

no, that was only for 6pdr.
Tiger didn't have cast armor and mantlet had up to 200mm thickness around a gun.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

stiener wrote (View Post):
thanks for the clarification......
as Jager asked tho...what about the 6 pdr with APDS? will it pen a panther or a tiger front armour at CC ranges?

6pdr APDS couldn't not penetrate Panther glacis at any range. Could penetrate Panther turret with a bit of luck at any combat range*.
6pdr APDS had little chance to penetrate Tiger turret but could penetrate Tiger's hull at any combat range*.

* - combat range for 6pdr APDS was around 400m Wink.
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Jager

Rep: 21.2


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):

Tiger didn't have cast armor and mantlet had up to 200mm thickness around a gun.


Can't agree here. This is common mistake routed from that people see the mantlet only from front side, but they don't realize how it looks from inside the turret. See pics applied. Mantlet is obviously cast. Hardest parts 150 mm are around coaxial MG port and bulb near sight ports. Main body is 140 and the weakest part is exactly around the gun (and scope).  Weakest because thinner edges are supported from behind by sloped 100 mm horisontal bars and vertical turret walls.

If we compare hull front, nose and turret front we will see that sloped hull front is about 102 mm, sloped nose plus spare tracks is about 115 mm and turret front differs totally from more than 200 mm on edges to 110 mm on sight port. Generally turret front is no less than 135 mm and if we summarize across whole area we'll get 140 mm " lowest average thickness". But this armor is cast and we should multiply to coefficient less than 1 to get the equivalent of rolled armour. This means that turret front vary from 120 mm (around gun) to 215 mm (on edges) in terms of rolled armour.
Maybe you need to recalculate tiger turret in the game according to this. But in sence of 6pdr penetration yes, turret is harder.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Jager wrote (View Post):

Can't agree here. This is common mistake routed from that people see the mantlet only from front side, but they don't realize how it looks from inside the turret. See pics applied. Mantlet is obviously cast. Hardest parts 150 mm are around coaxial MG port and bulb near sight ports. Main body is 140 and the weakest part is exactly around the gun (and scope).  Weakest because thinner edges are supported from behind by sloped 100 mm horisontal bars and vertical turret walls.

thanks alot for the drawings!
never even thought that a mantlet was cast Smile.

Quote:
If we compare hull front, nose and turret front we will see that sloped hull front is about 102 mm, sloped nose plus spare tracks is about 115 mm and turret front differs totally from more than 200 mm on edges to 110 mm on sight port. Generally turret front is no less than 135 mm and if we summarize across whole area we'll get 140 mm " lowest average thickness". But this armor is cast and we should multiply to coefficient less than 1 to get the equivalent of rolled armour. This means that turret front vary from 120 mm (around gun) to 215 mm (on edges) in terms of rolled armour.
Maybe you need to recalculate tiger turret in the game according to this. But in sence of 6pdr penetration yes, turret is harder.

looks like a drawing shows 135mm for these 6 screws?
normally I take the cast armor resistance as 15-25% less than the actual thickness depending on a country and time of production.
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Jager

Rep: 21.2


PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):

looks like a drawing shows 135mm for these 6 screws?
normally I take the cast armor resistance as 15-25% less than the actual thickness depending on a country and time of production.


We should remember about that "cuff" of the sleeve which cover gun tube. Cuff is 30 mm thick but it is not applied to the mantlet it is pressed into it (see drawing 3). So one may assume that ring-shaped area around the gun tube is 135 mm.

I agree with your estimation of cast armour durability.

The toughest thing here is to calculate "effective mantlet thickness" cause it vary greatly. Do you have a trusted algorithm for such cases?
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Cathartes

Rep: 101.3
votes: 15


PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Quote:
6pdr APDS couldn't not penetrate Panther glacis at any range. Could penetrate Panther turret with a bit of luck at any combat range*.


once again, not accurate.  Panther glacis armor was notoriously of unreliable quality.  Also, Dima always assumes that the 6pdr APDS is being fired at the perfect angle to always bounce off, which wasn't combat reality.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:40 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Cathartes wrote (View Post):

once again, not accurate.  Panther glacis armor was notoriously of unreliable quality.

So would you please show us a Panther glacis penetrated by 6pdr (any projectile)?

Quote:
Also, Dima always assumes that the 6pdr APDS is being fired at the perfect angle to always bounce off, which wasn't combat reality

Thanks for thinking of me, but your are wrong as always, Dima has never assumed so.
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stiener

Rep: 37.7
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Dima...how is your mod coming along?


WHEN THE PIN IS PULLED "MR GRENADE"IS NOT OUR FRIEND !
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Pzt_Crackwise

Rep: 64.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:50 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Yeah, please don't keep us waiting for so long! : )
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Ok, Iam back again Smile
Nikin is here to help and support me so we will go on making GTC a good game Smile.
Sorry Cath Smile
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stiener

Rep: 37.7
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

cool  Very Happy


WHEN THE PIN IS PULLED "MR GRENADE"IS NOT OUR FRIEND !
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ke_mechial

Rep: 83.8
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Historical realism mod :) Reply with quote

Nice, I hope in 2015 we will have great mods...
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