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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

Hillary's America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party (2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7e6gLht6OQ
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dj

Rep: 122.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:40 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

The Republicans are even worse.  Even the Libertarian Party presidential candidate said that recently.  Very little difference between the parties.  Now the incompetence and hopelessly corrupt Congress is having a meltdown about guns instead of doing any real work.  All they do is go around in circles blaming the other side for their corruption or partisan agendas.  Bernie Sanders was more about fixing the real problem which is campaign finance reform.  Congressman can leave after just 1 term and go work as Lobbyists.
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
The Republicans are even worse.  Even the Libertarian Party presidential candidate said that recently.  Very little difference between the parties.  Now the incompetence and hopelessly corrupt Congress is having a meltdown about guns instead of doing any real work.  All they do is go around in circles blaming the other side for their corruption or partisan agendas.  Bernie Sanders was more about fixing the real problem which is campaign finance reform.  Congressman can leave after just 1 term and go work as Lobbyists.


Agreed, the difference between the two parties is small. Two sides of the same coin.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
Very little difference between the parties.


Not true.


Link
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
"CIA need to be stopped and before they shoot another US President"

When you throw something like that into the middle of your statement, the reader loses focus and your post loses merit. Just sayin!


It is harsh but it is reality / fact that the CIA do far more harm than good. That article expressed how two US citizens died as a result of the CIA supplying arms to rebels via Jordan. Benghazi was the same, Afghanistan with the stingers, Contras etc. Lets not forget that supplying weapons to rebels against any country breaks International Law and those doing it can be held responsible for Crimes against Humanity.

You can't tell me you still believe the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or a Lone Wolf were behind the shooting surely. A world of disinformation has always crowded the shooting of JFK. From the Warren Commission to Bush Jr's lies about not being in Dallas on the day. Then there was the sole shooter story, ignoring witnesses, editing Zapruder footage etc. Just look at the history of the CIA to see everywhere they have been they have created misery. Any other organization by USA"s definition of a Terrorist would surely be labeled a Terrorist Organization.

It is hard for non USA persons to understand how such agencies can operate with impunity when others are held to account for less. Esp when considering the scope of years, countries and conflicts involved. Who actually is benefiting from the CIA's actions. Remember the CIA didn't advise Bush to invade Saudi A post 911 but Afghanistan, when most of the terrorist were Saudi and had Saudi security handlers. They traveled on Saudi passports, received Saudi cash and given Saudi help. All of this the CIA knew post 911.
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dj

Rep: 122.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:20 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

Just because you read something somewhere or somebody says something doesn't make it true.  You're reading too people peddling conspiracy theories.
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:44 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
Just because you read something somewhere or somebody says something doesn't make it true.  You're reading too people peddling conspiracy theories.


Actually everything I have said is fact with the exceptiion of CIA shooting JFK. Instead of guessing doing a little research would show these things to be true. Also as that clip showed some of these are US publications. What do you guys really think the CIA does overseas - set up schools and provide freedom and democracy. you really need to get out and about it see the truth for yourself.

On the JFK story,,,,,,,,,,,,,,don't you ever wonder why conclusively they have never nailed down one story but many as time has gone by. You are what you are fed. USA today feeds it's public BS. Oliver Stones Untold history of the United States - watch it please. This series is unique as only things that could be proved 100% were used, put past three teams of experts to pull apart. Stone hasn't been sued over anything in this doco. It's about opening your eyes and stop denying what's happening. It isn't anti-Americanism. those doing these things are the anti-Americans ( CIA, Clinton etc ). Also it's not unique to only USA either.

Conspiracy's are theories, these are facts and not mine but readily available to all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl00xC7ZUhs
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mooxe

Rep: 174.9
votes: 23


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

With all the conspiracies, theories, gossip, news and facts we are presented with, I am thankful this information about the US Government is so readily available and we are able to discuss it. Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, the Freedom of information Act, freedom of speech and freedom of the media have all contributed to a more democratic and transparent government. To be able analyze the government processes with all the different sources of information means the original intent is still working.
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dj

Rep: 122.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

Very well stated Mooxe.  Despite our political issues and division, I am grateful to live in such an open and free society.   In most of the Mid-East or many parts of the world, we would be sent to prison or worse for making negative comments about the government.  Still that should not make a society complacent or complicit with the actions of those in power.
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

I am a US Democrat and am looking forward to President Hillary Clinton taking the oath of office in 2017. I am very pleased with the job President Obama has done in his two terms. I think it will be many years before a US Republican is elected President.




Close Combat's most infamous SOB
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mooxe

Rep: 174.9
votes: 23


PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:35 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

US_Brake wrote (View Post):
I think it will be many years before a US Republican is elected President.


Have to agree on that. The GOP is still split working on repairing Trump's image and getting the message out AND trying to rally behind their candidate. Democrats don't seem to be focusing on Benghazi or the emails and are all in backing Hillary up. She definitely has the home field advantage.

I have never voted up here in Canada. I just think government (US & Canadian) is too large, too wasteful and corruption seeps in because its our nature. So why vote for that. People tell me if you don't vote you don't have a say and you cant complain! My response is being born into this land does not mean I accept the government. My lack of voting combined with many others not voting is the message we send for them to shape up.

So corruption is something I can really just shove aside when comparing any candidate or party. I look at the overall message while at the same time knowing full well behind the scenes corruption is happening no matter who's in. If the message is about acceptance, working together, the common good for everyone and if its generally positive, progressive and believable then that's who I'm for. But I am not voting for them.
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:46 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
With all the conspiracies, theories, gossip, news and facts we are presented with, I am thankful this information about the US Government is so readily available and we are able to discuss it. Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, the Freedom of information Act, freedom of speech and freedom of the media have all contributed to a more democratic and transparent government. To be able analyze the government processes with all the different sources of information means the original intent is still working.


Edward Snowden is a wanted man in the USA for telling the truth - a traitor in the eyes of the US Govt. Manning is incarcerated for 35 years for exposing more US Govt wrong doing. So you can't say they have contributed to a more democratic US society when they are treated as such - that's a total falsehood or propaganda spin. That's similar to what the ME countries might do like Turkey. Others would execute them like Saudi A and Jordan-  US allies.

USA Govt today is just playing at Democracy. They clearly are saying one thing and doing another - metadata, trans- pacific cable, Five Eyes etc. Just saying you are a democracy doesn't make you one - actions speak louder than words. Your country is no more open and free than some Third World countries and Banana Republics. You have seen some info about Hillary Clinton but accept her lies and corruption. Some of you will even vote for her. USA will deserve what they vote for in the long run. More conflicts, higher foreign debt - currently 19 trillion but could be as high as 38 trillions - 102% of GDP etc. All the forms of spying haven't caught one terrorist yet, the info only backs up on cases after identification. We use to laugh at China and USSR's paranoia. USA have gone many more steps past them in Paranoia. Democracy isn't about being free to say something in public.......it's about being listened to when you say it. In the US anyone can say anything, like Trump.....but it means nothing unless someone listens and acts upon it.

If another other country had attacked even half of the countries USA has since WW2- 75 ( 54 singularly ). They would have been deemed a terrorist state at the least. Iraq had only attacked two countries before it got hammered - Kuwait - a western backed dictatorship and Iran - backed too by the US ( Saddam was allied to the US ). Not to mention thousands of other things like - undermining sovereign countries economically and politically - Cuba, Venezuela. aided coups Venezuela, Ukraine, Sth Vietnam, Indonesia, Egypt and many more.Aiding / training / supplying Moderate Terrorists - FSA, Al Nusra, Contras and so forth, assassinations, drone kills, backing and installing dictatorships and much much more.

Democrats and Republicans................Conservatives and Labour - two sides of the same coin. Hillary proves that with massive donations from the Bush family owned Carlyle Group.
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mooxe

Rep: 174.9
votes: 23


PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

You really are making too many points per post. Points that you have repeated over and over here I might add. I'll respond to your paranoia point. In general, there is no paranoia either with the government or civilian population. Americans want safety and the government created tools to create and preserve safety. These tools invade everyone's privacy but in general, people do not care, have no idea about them or are just indifferent.
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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 45.7
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

The easy thing SOD is to just say I agree with pretty much all you have said. I really don't trust any politicians anymore. I have read too much to ever be so naive again. So much of written history is just parlayed out to us to believe the lies that the government wants us to believe without thinking about and/or complaining. It is amazing the number of people who have decided that the government version is a pack of lies and so they do the research to find out the TRUTH and end up dead as a result, many of the deaths declared as "suicide." A nice convenient way to get rid of troublemakers. Sort of like in the old Soviet Union.

For all those who think Hillary is the person to support, I guess they never really listened to or believed any of the myriad of women, many of them former Bill Clinton supporters, who told of the HELL that they were put through by Bill's raping ways. The same women accused Hillary in doing everything she could to make sure that their reputation was trashed should they ever think of pressing charges. Yeah, that is the sort of person I want as my next President.


"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:59 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
With all the conspiracies, theories, gossip, news and facts we are presented with, I am thankful this information about the US Government is so readily available and we are able to discuss it. Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, the Freedom of information Act, freedom of speech and freedom of the media have all contributed to a more democratic and transparent government. To be able analyze the government processes with all the different sources of information means the original intent is still working.



Good points Mooxe. Every intelligent and educated person would like to have access to truthful and honest information about our world and be able to make informed decisions about the important things in life. It is disturbing to see how so many people in the US and around the world are so easily influenced by false information and intentional lies.




Close Combat's most infamous SOB
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dj

Rep: 122.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:35 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

Today had some rare good news for the politics in U.S.  The U.S. , Canada and Mexico agreed to cut pollution rates sharply by 2025.  But the press conference in Ottawa was dominated by lingering questions about Trump and his intention to repeal NAFTA.
Actually U.S. politics is badly misunderstood by U.S. Citizens and especially the International media.  

Presidential candidates even if elected in the General election (not to be confused with Party Primary elections)...only approve or veto laws. Thus any comments by Presidential candidates regardless of party are baseless since Congress would need to get necessary votes for repeal or enactment of some other new treaty / law.
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:10 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

When Obama defeated Clinton and won the general election in 2008 it demonstrated that the American voters are truly in charge of electing Presidents in my country. I predict that Clinton will win this time around. The reason? She has the character, experience, support and most importantly the political views which represent the majority of American voters. Trump on the other hand represents the pathetic condition of American right-wing political views, political views that have a shocking similarity to fascism. The Republican party was nearly destroyed by GW Bush's leadership and the results are evident in the advancement of a candidate like Trump. Will Clinton be a good President? I hope so. Only time will tell.




Close Combat's most infamous SOB
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
You really are making too many points per post. Points that you have repeated over and over here I might add. I'll respond to your paranoia point. In general, there is no paranoia either with the government or civilian population. Americans want safety and the government created tools to create and preserve safety. These tools invade everyone's privacy but in general, people do not care, have no idea about them or are just indifferent.


I'll make it shorter for those with attention problems - US Govt and public paranoia. Spying laws - who have they caught, no one. Guns for protection - terrorist / crim's. lists of countries & peoples US Govt has under watch - China, Russia, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Nth Korea, Muslims, Mexicans and many more. 16 different Intel / Security groups doing the same job........lol. Color-coded terrorism threat that regularly is lifted and dropped for little or no reason - keeps public paranoid. Media that is fixated with terrorism and creating enemies - same list as above plus every other Muslim country. There is so much more like travel which is good for a laugh. Your mainstream media lying is another topic but helps create US public paranoia - WMD's in Iraq, Sarin Gas use by Assad etc. USA's biggest threat today is from it's own state sponsored paranoia.

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/worldwide-caution.html
 
US Govt doesn't provide safety by attacking other countries and creating enemies. But it does appear that the same people only have excuses for their countries illegal behaviour and no reasons. Hillary will be worse than Obama. Trump is an unknown quantity. But USA appears to have missed a true chance for democracy under Sanders.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jun/02/highereducation.books
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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 45.7
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

The way I see it, it goes to what is called the “Hegelian Dialectic.”

What this entails is the idea that the elitists in control employ a manufactured crisis in order to implement the plans that they would want to have in order to control the population. The elitists are well aware that when there is a problem the people generally will clamor for the government to come up with a solution that usually results in more control and more surveillance, such as The Patriot Act after 911, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

After all the measures enacted to make us safer in the US, all we really get is more control over the general population. Boston civil-liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate authored a  book "Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent" referring to the number of crimes he estimates the average American now unwittingly commits because of vague laws. New technology adds its own complexity, making innocent activity potentially criminal.

Ultimately, we are not as free as we have been led to believe.


"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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mooxe

Rep: 174.9
votes: 23


PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016 Reply with quote

I doubt the vast majority of Americans are paranoid about these threats. Their feelings are manifested more as bigotry than paranoia in my opinion. I travel often to the states, half my family is American, and there's just no hint of paranoia. The colour coded warning system was ditched years ago, sometime around 2011, and was the butt of many jokes as well.

The mass surveillance is two pronged btw. Its coming from the government for security purposes and corporations for bottom line purposes. Both were inevitable.

Is the US a safer from terrorism place with all these measures in place? I would say yes. Most of these systems are transparent, you don't know about them or any threats they may intercept. If there was no Patriot Act or "16 different Intel / Security groups" would the US be safer? Absolutely not. Is there a better way without mass surveillance? Yes, world peace, but that won't ever happen.
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