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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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paratmar

Rep: 28.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
It raises questions then about how these countries are brothers and how Russia is only engaging military targets.... yet there's 1.5million refugees?

These countries are brothers. Ukraine is like: Britain for the USA. There was also a civil war and hatred between them, and now the United States is more influential than Britain and they get along, although they still compete. I do not condemn other countries that are trying to interfere with the friendship between brothers Ukraine and Russia. If I was born in the west, I would also not want the unification of these brothers, because then They would be able to provide me, as their neighbor, with more effective resistance in controversial neighborly conflicts).
There are always many refugees in a civil war. There are many who disagree with the new rules, but they are a minority. for 40 million of the population of Ukraine, 1.5 million refugees, even if this is the case, this is very little, IMHO. Many of them will return after the guns are silent. This is real life, not a picture on the screen, there is only one rule that the West taught Russia - he is right who has more rights.
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mooxe

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

1.5 million refugees in 11 days. There will most likely be more though right?


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paratmar

Rep: 28.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
1.5 million refugees in 11 days. There will most likely be more though right?

Maybe more, maybe not. I am not a fortune teller and I do not have accurate data from reliable sources. I can give links to who left Ukraine these days, how much they paid for their release by their own border guards, and how they behave in those countries where they arrived. But since I, unlike you, am not sure of any source of information, I do not want to participate in the information war. I analyze information and draw conclusions for myself based on my own knowledge. According to the conditional rule I have deduced, all figures about our own losses must be multiplied by at least 3, and the losses of the enemy should be divided by 10. So here, 1.5 million refugees in reality, I think, is no more than 500 thousand.
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mooxe

Rep: 214.8
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Is Zelensky a Nazi? Or a fascist?


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dj

Rep: 149
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
It raises questions then about how these countries are brothers and how Russia is only engaging military targets.... yet there's 1.5million refugees?

These countries are brothers. Ukraine is like: Britain for the USA


Actually this is fair analogy of the situation in Ukraine.  When America wanted our independence from mother country, they also got very angry sent invasion fleets more and more troops.  And we also got help from foreign power (France).  Britain also retaliated and invaded our capital, destroyed our buildings and tried to terrorize local populations into submission.

Russia is about to find out the hard way, just as in the case of our mother country, that you can't win without very high costs and toll on military forces.  Same reasons why Mikhail Gorbachav withdrew Soviet troops from East Europe, Soviet Union could not financially sustain decades of forced occupation of nations against their will.  Putin dreams new Soviet style empire may end up in his own demise.
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paratmar

Rep: 28.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
Is Zelensky a Nazi? Or a fascist?

He is an actor, a showman, a jester who accidentally took the post of president. A good actor, but this is not enough to manage such a complex structure as the state. However, like Herostratus, he will leave a mark on history, and I think this will be enough for him.
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dj

Rep: 149
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
1.5 million refugees in 11 days. There will most likely be more though right?

Maybe more, maybe not. I am not a fortune teller and I do not have accurate data from reliable sources. I can give links to who left Ukraine these days, how much they paid for their release by their own border guards, and how they behave in those countries where they arrived. But since I, unlike you, am not sure of any source of information, I do not want to participate in the information war. I analyze information and draw conclusions for myself based on my own knowledge. According to the conditional rule I have deduced, all figures about our own losses must be multiplied by at least 3, and the losses of the enemy should be divided by 10. So here, 1.5 million refugees in reality, I think, is no more than 500 thousand.


It's basic math. Ukraine has population of over 40 million people.  Those numbers are provided by International community sources not some Imperial NATO conspiracy to frame Russia.  1.5 million out of population of 40M is very credible and reasonable number.  There are reports of some refugees going to Russia as well.

Who is helping the Ukrainian refugees?  International community and volunteers are all pitching in to help from across Europe and United States.

There is no real 3 dimensional chess or political angle to lie about refugees numbers.  Russia is bombing, shelling Ukrainian cities, cutting off access to power/food...naturally they will flee.  No games or lies about this.
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dj

Rep: 149
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Is Zelensky a Nazi? Or a fascist?

He is an actor, a showman, a jester who accidentally took the post of president. A good actor, but this is not enough to manage such a complex structure as the state. However, like Herostratus, he will leave a mark on history, and I think this will be enough for him.


Sounds like your answer to Mooxe's question is Nyet.  I assume when most Russians heard Putin's claim Ukraine had "Nazi" government they knew it was not credible and more of trash talk than reality.  We say here in my country those whom call the other side Nazi's have lost the argument.  Or in other words, those whom oppose Putin's Russia are all Nazi's by default?  I guess that's the new definition of Nazi according to Putin.
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paratmar

Rep: 28.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
It raises questions then about how these countries are brothers and how Russia is only engaging military targets.... yet there's 1.5million refugees?

These countries are brothers. Ukraine is like: Britain for the USA


Actually this is fair analogy of the situation in Ukraine.  When America wanted our independence from mother country, they also got very angry sent invasion fleets more and more troops.  And we also got help from foreign power (France).  Britain also retaliated and invaded our capital, destroyed our buildings and tried to terrorize local populations into submission.

Russia is about to find out the hard way, just as in the case of our mother country, that you can't win without very high costs and toll on military forces.  Same reasons why Mikhail Gorbachav withdrew Soviet troops from East Europe, Soviet Union could not financially sustain decades of forced occupation of nations against their will.  Putin dreams new Soviet style empire may end up in his own demise.

Unfortunately, I don’t know what Putin is dreaming about.) I hope that it’s not about what you attribute to him). In my opinion, the Russian elite drew conclusions from all the lessons of its history and got rid of Soviet morality (from each according to his ability, to each according to his work), adopting the best of the Western style of behavior - (nothing personal, just business).
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paratmar

Rep: 28.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
1.5 million refugees in 11 days. There will most likely be more though right?

Maybe more, maybe not. I am not a fortune teller and I do not have accurate data from reliable sources. I can give links to who left Ukraine these days, how much they paid for their release by their own border guards, and how they behave in those countries where they arrived. But since I, unlike you, am not sure of any source of information, I do not want to participate in the information war. I analyze information and draw conclusions for myself based on my own knowledge. According to the conditional rule I have deduced, all figures about our own losses must be multiplied by at least 3, and the losses of the enemy should be divided by 10. So here, 1.5 million refugees in reality, I think, is no more than 500 thousand.


It's basic math. Ukraine has population of over 40 million people.  Those numbers are provided by International community sources not some Imperial NATO conspiracy to frame Russia.  1.5 million out of population of 40M is very credible and reasonable number.  There are reports of some refugees going to Russia as well.

Who is helping the Ukrainian refugees?  International community and volunteers are all pitching in to help from across Europe and United States.

There is no real 3 dimensional chess or political angle to lie about refugees numbers.  Russia is bombing, shelling Ukrainian cities, cutting off access to power/food...naturally they will flee.  No games or lies about this.

I even envy you a little, in your confidence in the reliability of information from open sources. I think that they hardly reflect reality, at least 70%. In the most optimistic case, it is 50%.
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paratmar

Rep: 28.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Is Zelensky a Nazi? Or a fascist?

He is an actor, a showman, a jester who accidentally took the post of president. A good actor, but this is not enough to manage such a complex structure as the state. However, like Herostratus, he will leave a mark on history, and I think this will be enough for him.


Sounds like your answer to Mooxe's question is Nyet.  I assume when most Russians heard Putin's claim Ukraine had "Nazi" government they knew it was not credible and more of trash talk than reality.  We say here in my country those whom call the other side Nazi's have lost the argument.  Or in other words, those whom oppose Putin's Russia are all Nazi's by default?  I guess that's the new definition of Nazi according to Putin.

You are absolutely right, Zelensky is certainly not a Nazi, he is a completely normal opportunist. Like most normal people. Monika Zelensky).
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mooxe

Rep: 214.8
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Why are Russians protesting the war?


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paratmar

Rep: 28.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
Why are Russians protesting the war?

Why is the sky blue? Why is the water wet.... Your question is strange). It would be more correct to ask what percentage of the Russian population is protesting against the war, right? Answer: I don't know. Impossible to calculate exactly. According to the information that I have, this is approximately .... 0.00 .... who the hell knows how many percent.
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Desertmouse

Rep: 54.3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Strange answer ?
The question was WHY not what percentage
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 70.8


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Quote:
But you ignore a big difference - the error has been pointed out by many news outlets and fact checkers, including the Ukraine military itself- this is no secret, there is no gotcha!

Yeah, after videos from Russian news. And shouldn`t Ukrainian military knew from start, how many men they had on island, 13 or more? It's island, additional people cannot suddenly just walk to it.

Quote:
Why are Russians protesting the war?


For an internal targets operation reached a surprise factor, most people didn't expect start of war. The reasons for such a decision still hids in shadows. Many have relatives in Ukraine (including me), we afraid about their fate (despite received damnations at start of war). There are losses, including confirmed by government. The operation is definitely not a free walk, it's for months likely, depending of targets (real, or at least exact, which also hids in shadows). And yes, there is was some kind of political freedom in Russia.
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dj

Rep: 149
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
1.5 million refugees in 11 days. There will most likely be more though right?

Maybe more, maybe not. I am not a fortune teller and I do not have accurate data from reliable sources. I can give links to who left Ukraine these days, how much they paid for their release by their own border guards, and how they behave in those countries where they arrived. But since I, unlike you, am not sure of any source of information, I do not want to participate in the information war. I analyze information and draw conclusions for myself based on my own knowledge. According to the conditional rule I have deduced, all figures about our own losses must be multiplied by at least 3, and the losses of the enemy should be divided by 10. So here, 1.5 million refugees in reality, I think, is no more than 500 thousand.


It's basic math. Ukraine has population of over 40 million people.  Those numbers are provided by International community sources not some Imperial NATO conspiracy to frame Russia.  1.5 million out of population of 40M is very credible and reasonable number.  There are reports of some refugees going to Russia as well.

Who is helping the Ukrainian refugees?  International community and volunteers are all pitching in to help from across Europe and United States.

There is no real 3 dimensional chess or political angle to lie about refugees numbers.  Russia is bombing, shelling Ukrainian cities, cutting off access to power/food...naturally they will flee.  No games or lies about this.

I even envy you a little, in your confidence in the reliability of information from open sources. I think that they hardly reflect reality, at least 70%. In the most optimistic case, it is 50%.


The source today is from Polish government whom is on-boarding and counting the number of Ukrainian refugees entering.  They have updated tally of 1 million now.  Again very credible because Poland is friendly towards Ukraine and most similar ethnic.  Romania and Moldova are very poor countries and can not handle the refugees without the assistance of International Red Cross or other foreign aid.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/597045-ukrainian-refugees-expected-to-top-1-million-in-poland
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mooxe

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Why are Russians being arresting for protesting the war?


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dj

Rep: 149
votes: 9


PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:01 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

4,500 Russians arrested today in large anti-war protests across multiple cities in Russia.  New single day record for most arrests of anti-war protestors since the war began.
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paratmar

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:05 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Desertmouse wrote (View Post):
Strange answer ?
The question was WHY not what percentage

A certain number of Russian citizens protest against the inevitable deterioration of their lives, some are against the government, some are against because they are always against (eternal deniers), etc. There are always those who are against it. and this is good! Otherwise, we would not be able to argue, and Truth is born in a dispute. I think it's more important not that there are protesters, but how many protesters.
It is generally accepted that only under communism there is no pluralism of opinions. I hope you are not a communist?
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paratmar

Rep: 28.3
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:11 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
1.5 million refugees in 11 days. There will most likely be more though right?

Maybe more, maybe not. I am not a fortune teller and I do not have accurate data from reliable sources. I can give links to who left Ukraine these days, how much they paid for their release by their own border guards, and how they behave in those countries where they arrived. But since I, unlike you, am not sure of any source of information, I do not want to participate in the information war. I analyze information and draw conclusions for myself based on my own knowledge. According to the conditional rule I have deduced, all figures about our own losses must be multiplied by at least 3, and the losses of the enemy should be divided by 10. So here, 1.5 million refugees in reality, I think, is no more than 500 thousand.


It's basic math. Ukraine has population of over 40 million people.  Those numbers are provided by International community sources not some Imperial NATO conspiracy to frame Russia.  1.5 million out of population of 40M is very credible and reasonable number.  There are reports of some refugees going to Russia as well.

Who is helping the Ukrainian refugees?  International community and volunteers are all pitching in to help from across Europe and United States.

There is no real 3 dimensional chess or political angle to lie about refugees numbers.  Russia is bombing, shelling Ukrainian cities, cutting off access to power/food...naturally they will flee.  No games or lies about this.

I even envy you a little, in your confidence in the reliability of information from open sources. I think that they hardly reflect reality, at least 70%. In the most optimistic case, it is 50%.


The source today is from Polish government whom is on-boarding and counting the number of Ukrainian refugees entering.  They have updated tally of 1 million now.  Again very credible because Poland is friendly towards Ukraine and most similar ethnic.  Romania and Moldova are very poor countries and can not handle the refugees without the assistance of International Red Cross or other foreign aid.


https://thehill.com/policy/international/597045-ukrainian-refugees-expected-to-top-1-million-in-poland  

Poland is friendly to Ukraine like a wolf to a lamb. Lvov and other parts of western Ukraine (as you rightly noted, the most ethnically similar to the Poles) are a tasty morsel for them. Poland is an old neighbor and rival of Russia, and therefore I would not completely trust their information).
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