[mooxe]

So something about the maps was putting me off. I am finding them too bright, too detailed, too large and too zoomed in. I did a comparison of a CC5 city map vs a PiTF mixed hedgerow and city map.

First image is CC5 Carentan. 1440x900 resolution. Game width is 280m x 160m height.

Second image is PiTF Ger. 1440x900 resolution. Game width is 175m x 105m height.


You can see a very very obvious difference in brightness and building size.

CC5 is giving you a larger view of the battle area, plus smaller buildings to fight over. PiTF is giving you a much smaller battle view and larger buildings. You also get a larger map in most cases. I feel like its zoomed in. TLD/LSA are both CC5 style maps. PiTF is a definite shift in who's making the maps and a strong indication of whats coming for Gateway to Caen.

I really prefer the original style of maps CC5/TLD/LSA offer. What do you guys think?

[mikwarleo]

+1 cc5 style is clearly better

[Stwa]

Yuck...

Way too bright.

And personally, I have been stuck on CC4/CC5 maps, and the CCMT modifications to the CCM maps. I think the original CCM maps are too dark.

And, I always wondered how the larger scale really worked out, especially if you had a smaller monitor, or one that was not widescreen.

[Stwa]

Also,

I had mentioned this in one of the other PitF topics, but I thought I would mention it here.

Me thinks that you can downscale these maps, and then be able to use them in games prior to Pitf.

You want to scale at 10/16 or 62.5%, and in so doing the txt file does not need to be re-coded for the map to work in another game, like TLD.

5CC can do the scaling I think, and it will convert from 24bit back to 16bit color too. That might make the map somewhat coarser, and perhaps darker.

If not, a few mouseclicks with a brigtness adjustment might work too.

Wasn't southern_land the map maker for PitF. If not I am surprised by that.

Anyway, can anyone that has PitF and 5CC try the downscale out, and see if it works correctly?

[Stwa]

TLD/LSA are both CC5 style maps. -mooxe

Yes, but are LSA map features slightly larger or exagerrated somewhat since CC5. Becuase if map features (like structures and roads) on LSA are roughly equivalent in size to those on a CC5 map, then I have been messin up beeg time.

I have been reluctant to get LSA, because I was under the belief it was upscaled slightly and therefore didn't really resemble a CC5 map.

I have looked at lots of LSA screenshots, but I haven't been able to see enough LSA map thumbnails or JPG equivalents to be able to tell.

[pvt_Grunt]

The Carentan map looks more "finished" with rubble , more variation in colours of the grass and roofs, better textures. The Pitf map is lighter and the grass looks more like a lawn, not as realistic for a battlefield.
As for the brightness, thats just personal taste, I think it harks back to the more simple, cartoony CC2 maps.
I like the more zoomed in look. In a city map or a hedgerow map it is rare that you get very long sightlines any way. In an open plain / east front map it probably wont work as well.

[TheImperatorKnight]

I disagree. The PitF maps are warm and bright. The CC5 maps are dull and dingy. This has always put me off playing CC5 since back when the game came out. I said in several of my PitF videos that they got the look and feel of the game right, and even made comparisons to games like CC5, saying how gloomy the maps in that game look. PitF maps remind me of CC2 and CC3, rather than CC5.

The maps also vary in terrain and have more buildings in them than in CC5. No more maps consisting entirely of hedgerows In PitF, each map looks distinct from the rest.

And the "zoomed in" thing is a bad thing? I think it puts you closer to the action, not further away. This Series is called "Close Combat" for a reason! It's not "Distant Combat"  

[Stwa]

Cool!

So do you wanna see if it is possible to use 5CC and see if it can modify a PitF map?

You might need v 1.22, and then just try to open it, and if it works extract the bgm to a bmp file.

If that works, then you can just use Gimp or anything to scale the bmp file down 62.5 percent, or maybe 5CC can do it too.

If that flies, we are in business, and I am hoping I can grode them out a little so they look like CC5 maps.  

Maybe its what you start with. I got CC5 first, then CC4, then CCMT, and I just like all those maps best, for some reason I can't explain.

[mooxe]

Ok if you want to feel closer to the action drop your resolution more.

CC5 at 800x600 gives you 160x105m of game viewing space. The buildings look about the same size as PiTF at that resolution as well. Thats what so off putting about the maps for me, PiTF almost feels like playing at 800x600. Although the detail is much sharper, only being able to view that much of the map at once is no good for me. Its has the smallest max game viewable area of all versions. Why the change?

Putting PiTF at its lowest resolution 1024x768 gives 130m x 95m. Max viewing space at 1440x900 was 175m x 105m. There is very little difference in changing the resolutions I find.

Defending CC5 here, there are only 5 maps which are all hedgerow. And even some those have bunkers and defensive works in them. Furhter to that, some were very small maps. PiTF maps are almost all a mix of hedgerows and small towns, with some maps having bridges and rivers. They are about as diverse as CC5, GJS or TLD. Its subjective, and if you really get down it all versions have a certain pattern of maps to them. PiTF does not offer any more or less hedgerow/city fighting.

[Pzt_Kanov]

I guess I got used to the zoom in effect.

I really like some of the other aspects of Pitf like how it handles reinforcements and the stats not disappearing when the team is sent to the force pool so the overall reaction from me is currently a positive one.

About the maps the couple of things I don't like is that there are no trunks under the canopy of trees and that the maps themselves are too damn big, even if you scaled them to CC5 scale I think some of them would still be ridiculously big.

A lot of stuff could be improved though, even by simple changes.

[Pzt_Crackwise]

I also find it very convenient to be able to see as much as of the battlefield. Therefore, I set the resolution as high as possible. So I must say I am not a fan of the zoomed in view of PitF.

Apart from that CC5 maps rule in terms of artistic aspect!! Especially those of GJS, Der Kessel, Meuse and Karelia are a beauty to look at. (Der Kessel is my favorite mod in terms of maps and atmosphere, too bad it is so imbalanced to play multiplayer.)

Also the pavement pattern in the PitF map Mooxe has posted is just very annoying. All the pavement stones have the same diagonal orientation, seems very unrealistic. Whereas the posted CC5 map has differing pavement patterns and overall with the rubbles and debris etc. looks much more realistic. It has a great feel to it, a realistic atmosphere I must say.

[mooxe]

I don't think there's enough interest left in the Close Combat series to provide any worthwhile feedback. By worthwhile I mean a lot of people discussing different aspects of the game. There's very little feedback on all CC forums. That's probably why we have so many different versions of the game with different changes in each. Some changes get carried over to the newer versions, some don't.... other things are added or changed that are just random suprises. There are so many games in beta out there that have open tests, its the only way to get good feedback before a game goes live.

[Tejszd]

I don't mind losing some distance visibility to get better/bigger graphics. Part of the reason though for me is I have a 24" inch 1920x1200 monitor....

[Stwa]

Tejszd, you should probably go all in on PitF scale games with that monitor of yours. Perhaps a 32" would seem like total CC heaven for you.

I am gonna stick with all the stuff I have now. I don't want to start over in a different format, and I am very happy with the status quo. CC is just a very good looking game, that is just too much fun. I like Single Player because most of the time, I just enjoy observing the combat.

And as an observer, it is allways good, but it is generally best when you can observe the shooters and the targets at the same time.

[DoktorPaj]

I liked the ability too zoom in and out from COI, I wonder why they removed that. I would love to have had it in the rest of the series as well, although I am happy that all games except PiTF have a pretty big field of view. The PiTF field of view is too short for me, I have a hard time finding where enemy fire comes from.

[Ivan_Zaitzev]

I don't mind the PITF maps per se, but for the game I prefer the old CC stile. I mean, the maps are nice but when you are playing and you see your units running the contrast is too big. Cartoonish units in a realistic map, I prefer cartoonish maps.

[corsair]

Hi,

just a personnal opinion regarding PitF.
I am not an expert in resolution of maps and that kind of stuff   but......
I am leaving in the North of France and spent my last summer holidays in Cotentin not very far from La Haye du Puy.
I do prefer PitF roof textures, they are really looking close to real roofs you can still see on holdest houses in Normandy.
I never liked the CC4 & CC5 roof textures, they have nothing to see with real roofs.
I do have stock CC4 & CC5 releases, never enjoyed to play them just because of that
At the end that's just my own perception.........

[Sapa]

Reason for the change roads (wider) is to give the AI a chance to move vehicles without getting stuck...

next version will have highway size...

[Stwa]

No doubt.

It wasn't until I got CCMT that I started really paying attention to the differences between one map set and another. With CCMT, there are no actuall campaign style mods. The main way of modifying or expanding CCMT is by adding new maps or recycling old maps.

I am definately OK with the CC5 style rooftops, and if you will just cut down the GJS maps, even they can look very nice. With over 200+ WW2 maps, most all of them in France, there is no way in hades that I will jump to a new format that just isn't even incrementally better than what I have now.

Unfortunately at this site, users just don't put up alot of map sceenshots. For instance, I might like LSA maps, but just the maps, because my understanding is the game no workie. But I just haven't been able to see enough screenies of the maps to make a decision.

[mooxe]

I tired to add all the map screenshots to the screenshot gallery, but as they are 32bit the conversion program wont work with them.