Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
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Slitherine are in NO way interested in CC or making CC better, just more sales! The new maps and UI look pretty awful. Not sure how many of you remember Squad Assault, but even there we kept as close as possible to the CC UI, because it worked. If it aint broke don't fix it!
If you want sell more games, please do not remember us Squad Assault, it and GI Combat, both were two of the worse 3D games from the whole world.
If you want sell games, you must try to make them with the maximun possible features and you must not restric the modding capabilities, if we can not add new 3D models, you limit us to the three original operations and few more.
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Now though, its time for CC to move forwards, its not gonna happen with Slitherine. Steve has himself [1 Programmer] and 2 Graphic designers. Thats not a recipe for an awesome new game. Given Slitherines turnover its paltry indeed. Trust me I know the figures!
I know very well what you need for a new game and I can accept that they must work at some smaller but there are some limitations which I do not like. I have told them before.
About Gateway to Caen, I must confess how probably I would like buy the game because it will be the last from its specie but I do not want pay 38€ by it, it is too much expensive and probably I will wait. Specially I will wait to the workbook.
If you want know, I have not bought all the CC games because they were too expensive. I have not bought Close Combat - Cross of Iron, Close Combat: The Longest Day and Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog.
Slitherine are in NO way interested in CC or making CC better, just more sales!
I guess they would only be doing what every other "developer" has done once they got their hands on the CC source code--so we are all used to it by now.
That's a pretty bold statement by you really. Weren't you a part of CSO Simtek/Strategy 3 Tactics? The team in charge of the first three rereleases? What meaningful changes or new features did you provide in those releases?
While I don't think that Siltherine has any plan to support and develop CC, they have done some new things. CC: COI, CC:WAR, CC: TLD were a total waste of an opportunity.
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
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CC: COI, CC:WAR, CC: TLD were a total waste of an opportunity.
Just a simple question. Can you play CC3, CC4 and CC5 at a modern machine? the answer is very probably no. By these reasons I would not say that they are a waste of opportunity.
Another example, I love the xwing games and I would be very happy if remastered version from this old games were released again.
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
The intent of the re-releases was to make the older games esp CC3 available to more people. CC3 was going for up to $80 on ebay and they saw an opportunity with an updated release that can run on newer machines.
They certainly DID oversell the product, claiming new features and AI which were really much the same as before.
The thing which causes the most complaints is the soldiers behaviour under fire, which was changed to counter the famous CC5 "Crawl of Death" which was also loudly criticized.
The thing which causes the most complaints is the soldiers behaviour under fire, which was changed to counter the famous CC5 "Crawl of Death" which was also loudly criticized.
Over the years, Iv started to wonder if the dev have no idea what the did to cause the ”girly Soldier” behaviour (crawl to death)… As non seem to like this enhancement, and its still in every version since COI..
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
Quote:
I guess they would only be doing what every other "developer" has done once they got their hands on the CC source code--so we are all used to it by now.
That's a pretty bold statement by you really. Weren't you a part of CSO Simtek/Strategy 3 Tactics? The team in charge of the first three rereleases? What meaningful changes or new features did you provide in those releases?
While I don't think that Siltherine has any plan to support and develop CC, they have done some new things. CC: COI, CC:WAR, CC: TLD were a total waste of an opportunity.
When we found the source code, it was sitting in Keith Zs Garage, in 2 mouldy CD holders and several non working HD's in a falling apart cardboard box. The code we got off those disks and HD's was so bad and so full of useless commented out crap, that it took way out past CoI just to clean the code up [get rid of all the crap in the code, it still referenced CC1 and DOS in CC5] NOTHING had ever been taken out of the code, just commented out! It still had the code for CC2 Mac in the CC5 code! The biggest part of those releases was getting to a point where you could make changes and start to do things. Also do you think we had a road map from Doug and the old designers, telling us what everything did? What was useful, what could go etc?
The idea with CoI was to get the modding community as part of the game. Why did we include mods, MMCC, a plugin installer? A plugin creator? Is there an updated plugin creator in any version after CoI? Any easy way of creating plugins for CC in any of the later releases.
We spent a ton of time making improvements. I still have the fix lists! You have no idea. A pretty bold statement. Really Stalky? You of course could do much better? Clueless....
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
Ok Let me tell you something.
The reason we got the code was that we got Destineer and Atomic out of the crap with the USMC. The USMC had paid Destineer 3.6 Million to develop a FPS that was supposed to link with Atomic s Red Phoenix and be playable on both levels. Atomic got 3.5 million for their part in designing Red Phoenix.
Around 18 months into development of RP, [Atomic were developing their own engine] they realised the engine was not gonna work. So they had to start from scratch and used a modular existing engine. [This was when Mick Conmy - Mic_Xe5] went to work for Atomic. At that point we realised just what a mess RP was. At a meeting in Orlando at I/TSEC the inter-service simulation conference Keith brought RP and everyone realised it was 3.5 million gone with some junk code to show for it. I think the last build is actually on CSS, I know its on CSO.
Atomic had used almost of of the 3.5M up and there was nothing to show for it. Destineer took Atomic over and signed us up to use the existing CC code [which we had been using to make changes in CCM for the USMC] to build and deliver 2 things to the USMC so they would have something to show for the money spent. Destineers FtF, the USMC said they could not use, it was eventually used as an anti drug Sim, which in the end the USMC said "we don't have a drug problem WTF do we need a drug trainer for?" But At lest it was viable and Destineer had a saleable commercial product in First to Fight. That still left major holes in the USMC contract with Destineer/Atomic as part of the SoW [Statement of Work/Requirements] in the contract required an Anti Terrorism capability in CC and a JTAC [Joint Terminal Attack Controller] capability.
We got the code because we produced an AT version and a JTAC version of CC. The AT version utilised 3 sides, asymmetric warfare, placing of IEDs and a whole raft of new stuff. Do you know what we got to fund the development and deliver these 2 products? 9 months and $80,000 for AT and $80,000 for JTAC. [Out of a total of 7.1Million between Destineer/Atomic] That's the money we had to develop CoI with and AT + JTAC. We struggled like hell to get payments out of Destineer to carry on work on both AT/JTAC and to develop CoI. We were always behind on payments to everyone as we simply could not get our payments on time. It was the perseverance of Steve and everyone that got CoI out of the door. The funds we got or should have from Matrix were to develop CC further. We had even discussed taking on an intern extra programmer to work with Steve. [Based on what we would be getting from sales of CoI]
The split that was worked out was 25% to Simtek 25% to Matrix and 50% to Destineer on sales of all re-releases. It was up to Matrix to publish. Simtek to develop and Destineer to collect royalty. Simtek NEVER got 25% from Matrix. I got ill and Matrix took over the entire code/source etc while I was out of he picture ill having had a heart attack and other major health problems. When I was better, none of what had been planned had taken place and Matrix had effectively subsumed my company. Matrix was taking their own 25% [which was not bad for the little they had to do] and my companies 25% giving them a 50% of all sales. At this point any payments to me ceased. I had NEVER signed code or company over to Matrix, but while ill, they had taken everything over. I left it to Dave, who was I thought a friend to look after for me until I got better. He did that ok! Since then I have received nothing for any release, I never sold the rights to CC to Matrix or sold my company, my company was NEVER signed over to Matrix. BUT Matrix had carried on paying the devs and added some from the CC Community. CoI sold MUCH MUCH better than anyone had expected, but I got sod all from the sales. Less than 2% which stopped after abt 12 months.
Matrix then got into major difficulties partly resulting from a lost lawsuit and other things, which meant they needed a buyer. Slitherine came along and bought Matrix, a major asset of which was CC. CC crosses the border between hardcore wargame and casual gaming, which makes it a much better seller than traditional hex based games. We within Simtek had wanted to develop a new engine and build an entirely new CC. Still top down. I have desihn docs by Luer / Atilla / Mick and others to this end. BUT, due to the appalling cash flow, non payment by Destineer and Matrix, we were bolloxed. Matrix had effectively stolen the company while I was ill, Dave was busy bad-mouthing me and the rest of Simtek to everyone who worked for us while I was ill. t was then part of the sale to Slitherine. Neither company ever paid for it and I am on welfare!
My dream had been to 1) get the code. 2) Clean it up and develop a re-releases with fixes and mods, as well as win XP/Vista/7 compatibility. 3) Use the re-release money to develop the next generation CC. But that meant realistically Steve needed help, new engine, more graphic designers etc. We had even discussed this with Steve and everyone. Matrix put a stop to that. I was even told while I was ill, no more re-releases were being worked on as they were not worth it. [before I had seen CoI figures] and the next release was already being worked on.
I am left with heart probs, kidney and blood/iron probs living on welfare, while everything I worked for was taken from me. I am shortly to go into hospital again as my heart is playing up.
Matrix and Slitherine dont care about CC in any way shape or form as I do, I got into the CC scene as I loved the game, I worked for a long time to get the code, it took me 4 years to work the deal to get it. I wanted to use the CC community to make CC better. So despite NEVER paying for it or me signing over any rights, Matrix and Slitherine have carried on selling the re-releases, making a ton of money and paying zero for it! Only now are they even making any attempt at a new engine and thats with Steve working on 2 games at once with 1 or 2 graphic designers working on the new engine!
There is much much worse and much more than this that Matrix did to me and others, but I am not going into that!
Next time you feel like telling me how I could have done better, know WTF has gone on Stalky.
I still have the source code up to LSA, and the finished build of JTAC, but effectively what use is it?
Why do you think I am using part of my welfare which hardly leaves me enough to bloody eat to build CSO? on a decent fast, dedicated server in the UK? Because I have no interest in CC? I know Matrix/Slitherine will eventually dump all the mods and maps and it will only be here and CSO that has the files! We are already finding files, mods maps that were about to be lost. I don't want that to happen. As CC1 thru 5 is already up on abandonware sites, have toyed with the idea of putting them online for download.
Oh and after we delivered CC AT/JTAC to the USMC after losing the 7.1M to the Destineer/Atomic projects, the USMC sensibly moved to Use VBS.
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
Sulla, I made those comments, not Stalky.
It certainly is enlightening hearing your perspective and what you went through personally. But look at it from my (and probably a few others) perspective--cause you are right, I wasn't involved in all those business deals, I just play and love this game. You and people associated with you went around CSO/Matrix and these forums being complete blowhards about how amazing COI was (and subsequent rereleases were)--anyone who spoke out was attacked and/or ignored. The question was always a simple one: what favor did were those releases for those that already had CC3-5? And who was clamoring for rereleased versions CC3-5 anyways? Come on, you think a included plugin manager and Windows 7+ compatibility means anything? Gameplay-wise, feature-wise, what really improved in COI (or really for that matter even WAR, TLD)? Nothing--actually, the gameplay got worse! I get trying to infuse some new players to the series (which didn't happen), but why someone who owned CC3-5 buy a game for $50 was the exact same thing but played worse with no meaningful new features? I'm supposed to be happy because it works on newer versions of Windows, and because at least it was something? My copies ran fine on the OS I was using at the time (XP), and you can run CC3-5 in compatibility mode in Windows 7 and Windows 8 (I know, because I've done it). I was realistic when COI came out and figured COI was needed to get some revenue generated so time could be spent making meaningful changes to subsequent releases--but then WAR came, and TLD, and LSA, and then PTIF. Now we have what, eleven versions of Close Combat and the community is on its last legs? It's a complete mess.
I don't doubt you (along with many others) put it work behind the scenes to make some things happen, but those rereleases, to those that already had the originals and had been around here for a while, don't add up to much.
Last edited by Troger on Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:23 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:45 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
The source code was just sitting in Keith Z's garage? He should have just released it to the public, if possible--maybe then any CC development could have been community-driven and away from all this business deal bullshit.
You have the LSA source code? Could you release it publicly?
Last edited by Troger on Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:21 am; edited 2 times in total
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
The story from CC games told by Sulla, very funny, it remembers me to the corruption problems in Spanish goverment and obviously with CC, somebody was a disaster directing the company.
You had the resources and you did not know how manage resources properly.
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My dream had been to 1) get the code. 2) Clean it up and develop a re-releases with fixes and mods, as well as win XP/Vista/7 compatibility. 3) Use the re-release money to develop the next generation CC.
I knew it and I accepted it but this is the reason because at this moment many people is tired because at first place, you or the man at charge have not made it very well from the begining.
Sorry but it is the true. From the begining we had the mods, the community and people like you tried win more with them. We did not need more at this point with exception from better tools, at least faster tools. If you had made a new CC with everything the new features that you could add and after it the re-releases, it had been better.
I know, it could be worse, Keith did not like the mods. I remember when people was playing to CC3 and we do not know if someday Keith would shut down all the mods.
About Matrix and Slitherine.....I´m sure at 100% that they will not work for free but after they took the CC games, we saw a new CC game at 32bits with all the features that we wanted for years, now we are waiting other and we wait a complete new CC game at 3D as it must be.
About mods and if Slitherine dump all the mods and maps.....I have been at more modding communities, the modding communities are not made by the creators, always they are made by the people making the mods. Never I waited more from them, the same that I waited from you or the others before.
About save the files, at this moment, the point from center everything at one site paying the server....I find it non-sense option, you can use skydrive, google drive or one thing very ignored by most of the CC community, Moddb but I feel how you want control everything...., I know because I have my own site and I like control where are all my mods but of course I do not pay a server at UK, it would be a waste of money. My server is in the west coast from U.S, it is cheaper and I save my files at other free servers. It is enough for this. At other point, I have my H-D for save the files forever.
Ah you forgot tell us about GICombat and Squad Assault. Two of the biggest piece of shit from the CC story.
At the end, everything by the money. Nothing strange, the money corrupts.
The source code was just sitting in Keith Z's garage? He should have just released it to the public, if possible--maybe then any CC development could have been community-driven and away from all this business deal bullshit.
You have the LSA source code? Can you give release it publicly?
Amen to that...who knows how to get a hold of Keith? I knew this was going to be the case...only when Atomic was directly involved (and probably Keith himself) was CC at its best in my opinion.
We got to get that source code or get Keith back involved to actually make the game improve , not just the graphics but the game play and core features.
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
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We got to get that source code or get Keith back involved to actually make the game improve , not just the graphics but the game play and core features.
You forget two points, he was not a friend from the mods and he wasted a lot of money at this.
At my opinion, these guys had their chances, they wasted a lot of money from us and now I want see what happen with Slitherine because it looks better. Even if the new game is made by Steve (really I´m not sure if Steve and Sulla are the same persons) and two man more, now it looks better than 7 years before.
Over the years, Iv started to wonder if the dev have no idea what the did to cause the ”girly Soldier” behaviour (crawl to death)… As non seem to like this enhancement, and its still in every version since COI..
It certainly seems that way, doesn't it? Every development team has either apparently ignored the comments on it, thought it better that way, or must have not known how to fix it.
I guess they would only be doing what every other "developer" has done once they got their hands on the CC source code--so we are all used to it by now.
That's a pretty bold statement by you really. Weren't you a part of CSO Simtek/Strategy 3 Tactics? The team in charge of the first three rereleases? What meaningful changes or new features did you provide in those releases?
While I don't think that Siltherine has any plan to support and develop CC, they have done some new things. CC: COI, CC:WAR, CC: TLD were a total waste of an opportunity.
When we found the source code, it was sitting in Keith Zs Garage, in 2 mouldy CD holders and several non working HD's in a falling apart cardboard box. The code we got off those disks and HD's was so bad and so full of useless commented out crap, that it took way out past CoI just to clean the code up [get rid of all the crap in the code, it still referenced CC1 and DOS in CC5] NOTHING had ever been taken out of the code, just commented out! It still had the code for CC2 Mac in the CC5 code! The biggest part of those releases was getting to a point where you could make changes and start to do things. Also do you think we had a road map from Doug and the old designers, telling us what everything did? What was useful, what could go etc?
The idea with CoI was to get the modding community as part of the game. Why did we include mods, MMCC, a plugin installer? A plugin creator? Is there an updated plugin creator in any version after CoI? Any easy way of creating plugins for CC in any of the later releases.
We spent a ton of time making improvements. I still have the fix lists! You have no idea. A pretty bold statement. Really Stalky? You of course could do much better? Clueless....
The reason we got the code was that we got Destineer and Atomic out of the crap with the USMC. The USMC had paid Destineer 3.6 Million to develop a FPS that was supposed to link with Atomic s Red Phoenix and be playable on both levels. Atomic got 3.5 million for their part in designing Red Phoenix.
Around 18 months into development of RP, [Atomic were developing their own engine] they realised the engine was not gonna work. So they had to start from scratch and used a modular existing engine. [This was when Mick Conmy - Mic_Xe5] went to work for Atomic. At that point we realised just what a mess RP was. At a meeting in Orlando at I/TSEC the inter-service simulation conference Keith brought RP and everyone realised it was 3.5 million gone with some junk code to show for it. I think the last build is actually on CSS, I know its on CSO.
Atomic had used almost of of the 3.5M up and there was nothing to show for it. Destineer took Atomic over and signed us up to use the existing CC code [which we had been using to make changes in CCM for the USMC] to build and deliver 2 things to the USMC so they would have something to show for the money spent. Destineers FtF, the USMC said they could not use, it was eventually used as an anti drug Sim, which in the end the USMC said "we don't have a drug problem WTF do we need a drug trainer for?" But At lest it was viable and Destineer had a saleable commercial product in First to Fight. That still left major holes in the USMC contract with Destineer/Atomic as part of the SoW [Statement of Work/Requirements] in the contract required an Anti Terrorism capability in CC and a JTAC [Joint Terminal Attack Controller] capability.
We got the code because we produced an AT version and a JTAC version of CC. The AT version utilised 3 sides, asymmetric warfare, placing of IEDs and a whole raft of new stuff. Do you know what we got to fund the development and deliver these 2 products? 9 months and $80,000 for AT and $80,000 for JTAC. [Out of a total of 7.1Million between Destineer/Atomic] That's the money we had to develop CoI with and AT + JTAC. We struggled like hell to get payments out of Destineer to carry on work on both AT/JTAC and to develop CoI. We were always behind on payments to everyone as we simply could not get our payments on time. It was the perseverance of Steve and everyone that got CoI out of the door. The funds we got or should have from Matrix were to develop CC further. We had even discussed taking on an intern extra programmer to work with Steve. [Based on what we would be getting from sales of CoI]
The split that was worked out was 25% to Simtek 25% to Matrix and 50% to Destineer on sales of all re-releases. It was up to Matrix to publish. Simtek to develop and Destineer to collect royalty. Simtek NEVER got 25% from Matrix. I got ill and Matrix took over the entire code/source etc while I was out of he picture ill having had a heart attack and other major health problems. When I was better, none of what had been planned had taken place and Matrix had effectively subsumed my company. Matrix was taking their own 25% [which was not bad for the little they had to do] and my companies 25% giving them a 50% of all sales. At this point any payments to me ceased. I had NEVER signed code or company over to Matrix, but while ill, they had taken everything over. I left it to Dave, who was I thought a friend to look after for me until I got better. He did that ok! Since then I have received nothing for any release, I never sold the rights to CC to Matrix or sold my company, my company was NEVER signed over to Matrix. BUT Matrix had carried on paying the devs and added some from the CC Community. CoI sold MUCH MUCH better than anyone had expected, but I got sod all from the sales. Less than 2% which stopped after abt 12 months.
Matrix then got into major difficulties partly resulting from a lost lawsuit and other things, which meant they needed a buyer. Slitherine came along and bought Matrix, a major asset of which was CC. CC crosses the border between hardcore wargame and casual gaming, which makes it a much better seller than traditional hex based games. We within Simtek had wanted to develop a new engine and build an entirely new CC. Still top down. I have desihn docs by Luer / Atilla / Mick and others to this end. BUT, due to the appalling cash flow, non payment by Destineer and Matrix, we were bolloxed. Matrix had effectively stolen the company while I was ill, Dave was busy bad-mouthing me and the rest of Simtek to everyone who worked for us while I was ill. t was then part of the sale to Slitherine. Neither company ever paid for it and I am on welfare!
My dream had been to 1) get the code. 2) Clean it up and develop a re-releases with fixes and mods, as well as win XP/Vista/7 compatibility. 3) Use the re-release money to develop the next generation CC. But that meant realistically Steve needed help, new engine, more graphic designers etc. We had even discussed this with Steve and everyone. Matrix put a stop to that. I was even told while I was ill, no more re-releases were being worked on as they were not worth it. [before I had seen CoI figures] and the next release was already being worked on.
I am left with heart probs, kidney and blood/iron probs living on welfare, while everything I worked for was taken from me. I am shortly to go into hospital again as my heart is playing up.
Matrix and Slitherine dont care about CC in any way shape or form as I do, I got into the CC scene as I loved the game, I worked for a long time to get the code, it took me 4 years to work the deal to get it. I wanted to use the CC community to make CC better. So despite NEVER paying for it or me signing over any rights, Matrix and Slitherine have carried on selling the re-releases, making a ton of money and paying zero for it! Only now are they even making any attempt at a new engine and thats with Steve working on 2 games at once with 1 or 2 graphic designers working on the new engine!
There is much much worse and much more than this that Matrix did to me and others, but I am not going into that!
Next time you feel like telling me how I could have done better, know WTF has gone on Stalky.
I still have the source code up to LSA, and the finished build of JTAC, but effectively what use is it?
Why do you think I am using part of my welfare which hardly leaves me enough to bloody eat to build CSO? on a decent fast, dedicated server in the UK? Because I have no interest in CC? I know Matrix/Slitherine will eventually dump all the mods and maps and it will only be here and CSO that has the files! We are already finding files, mods maps that were about to be lost. I don't want that to happen. As CC1 thru 5 is already up on abandonware sites, have toyed with the idea of putting them online for download.
Oh and after we delivered CC AT/JTAC to the USMC after losing the 7.1M to the Destineer/Atomic projects, the USMC sensibly moved to Use VBS.
Really Stalky? You of course could do much better? Clueless....S
This sort of null argumentation…
It’s like someone buying a new car, and then after 2 years its rust everywhere, and the car won’t run when it’s raining…
And then when complaining about the crap car, the car manufacturers CEO “Mr Sulla” come and say:
“Really Stalky? You of course could do much better? Clueless....S “
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
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We got to get that source code or get Keith back involved to actually make the game improve , not just the graphics but the game play and core features.
You forget two points, he was not a friend from the mods and he wasted a lot of money at this.
At my opinion, these guys had their chances, they wasted a lot of money from us and now I want see what happen with Slitherine because it looks better. Even if the new game is made by Steve (really I´m not sure if Steve and Sulla are the same persons) and two man more, now it looks better than 7 years before.
First off, please bear in mind, I started from the community. CSO started off as the first major site to host the mods ans maps. This was way before I even setup the domain closecombat.org . Many of the files would have been lost forever as they were all hosted in small sites which gradually all shut down. Its nothing to do with control. ClubSSI hosted a few mods, but that died fast! I ran MGO and Wargamer as well as CSO, MGO hosted files, but as soon as it shut down all files hosted were lost. I fought to keep the MGO domain going so the sites and mods would stay online, to no avail. It goes back so long now, god I was young when CC1 came out. TBH, if we had gone to maybe Paradox to publish the game, we would be in a much better position than now. But I had worked for Matrix and knew Dave [thought I did] so trusted him.
Keith is not a programmer and a crap designer. Keith had $3.5 million to develop the next gen CC, but what did we get? Not even a playable game. The Red Phoenix that is online for download, that's what he came up with. Nothing, a total POS. Eric Young has Cancer and was anyway only ever taken on at Atomic as a history expert. Doug Walker was the project manager, he was the one who made CC shine! Him and the NASA AI specialist. The AI was and is still unique!
What I and most of Simtek wanted was to make CC as good as we had always wanted it to be. Just like you we knew/know the weaknesses. Why if they could be fixed would they be left? There were a lot of fixes went into every version, whether obvious or not. You say we were enthusiastic about CoI, would you not be? This was our as much as anyone elses dream come true. But given the severe funding crisis and time, we were lucky to even get it out on sale. The fix lists were enormous. Steve worked through them week after week. Steve is one of the best programmers I have come across, he is also a really nice guy! The problem with the current engine is you change one thing to fix something which breaks something else. When we first got the code it was almost impossible to tell what did what and what was actually obsolete. Steve spent a good SIX months, just cleaning the code up, so it was possible to start using it and making changes! You try anf fix pathing or crawl of death and introduce other problems. Thats why we wanted to do a new engine. But Matrix was losing money, my company was simply taken over by Matrix. Dave immediately fired everyone apart from Steve
Steve at this point knows the CC engine better than anyone, even Doug or the old [Atomic programmers who coincidentally worked on EYSA]. Steve is Steve aka The_Blood, he and I are most certainly different people. I am English Steve is American lol. I remember how shocked he was when we first got the code. You have no idea! Steve used to work for Microsoft, developing for them. He is VERY good and when it comes to CC, as devoted as any of us. Don't you remember who made up Simtek? Ross [Future] Han Boss [Attilla] Eli Precht [Luer] Steve McClaire [The_Blood] Andrew Williams [Schrecken] Shane Cameron [Southen Land] Randall Grubb [Snr_Drill] Jim Martin [Oddball] Mick Conmy [Mick_Xe5]. Given the modding experience in Simtek, don't you think we all wanted what you wanted? If we had a CC Hall of fame don't you think most of them would be on it? I only found out about 3 or 4 weeks ago that Matrix paid poor Shane $5 a map for all the LSA maps! The moment Matrix was involved any hopes of using the money to fund development of CC was gone. If Matrix was willing to treat me as it has, how important do you think future development of CC is to them?
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The source code was just sitting in Keith Z's garage? He should have just released it to the public, if possible--maybe then any CC development could have been community-driven and away from all this business deal bullshit.
You have the LSA source code? Could you release it publicly?
TBH, I think the ONLY way CC is going to get where it needs to go is if the community gets involved and builds an open source version that's locked down tight so no one can sell out to any company. Its owned by all the developers and contributors. Yes I have source code for CC, I have source code from CC1 thru to LSA. I was out of the picture and so disillusioned with CC, with games and everything, its taken me years to even get back to a place where I can think of CC without nearly having another heart attack. That was my dream, to use CC, the rebuilds and make a new CC. 25% would have paid more than enough for that, but no, Matrix had to take that away from me too! I have so many CC design docs done by Luer, Attilla, Mick etc.
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About save the files, at this moment, the point from center everything at one site paying the server....I find it non-sense option, you can use skydrive, google drive or one thing very ignored by most of the CC community, Moddb but I feel how you want control everything...., I know because I have my own site and I like control where are all my mods but of course I do not pay a server at UK, it would be a waste of money. My server is in the west coast from U.S, it is cheaper and I save my files at other free servers. It is enough for this. At other point, I have my H-D for save the files forever.
Nomada, all of those sites are a rip off, I know about ModDb and other sites, I even tried the cheap US server as recommended by Mooxe, but found them them useless, at least in my case. I have a solid server, with incremental 5 minute backups. I am not going to lose files. If you are hosting with anyone, cloud, skydrive etc, you have NO guarantee that they won't go under. The amount and number of different technologies we have seen in the last 15 years, the only safe way is to have them on a decent server with backup. Me and KG have already found loads of mods that were missing, unfinished or on the verge of vanishing. Its got sod all to do with control, but I would hate to see hundreds if not thousand of hours of work that has gone into any mod lost.
Honestly, having been involved in CC and wargames in one way or another for the last 15-20 years, the ONLY way forward for what we want out of CC is community based. The money has gone to Destineer, Matrix, Sitherine, Atomic. Keith Z was violently opposed to modding in any shape or form and Slitherine are no better than Matrix. I know how much they make and what is put back. Do you honestly think Slitherine is any better than Matrix?
Nomada, Squad Assault is almost funny enough to be a parody. I will tell you about it in the next post. Honestly you would not belive GIC and EYSA lol!
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
Nice one Stalky,
When you don't control the money coming in from the sales. You lose control of the entire project.
I lost control when Matrix published CoI. CEO is pretty meaningless when you have zero control and are not getting paid. Added to that I was ill and got iller. At that point Matrix who were supposed to look after CC for me, look after my company, shut me out of my own company stopped paying me and totally ripped me off. [NOT ONLY on CC!]. I guess when Dave at Matrix said keep your friends close and your enemies closer he considered me an enemy! Some mate he turned out.
CoI was far from a rusty car! Stalky, I am sure given the same chances you "could" have done much better. Really I lost everything I had dreamed of doing because I got ill, which allowed Matrix to simply subsume Simtek. I had pretty much zero influence after CoI. It took so long and was such hard work to even get the code, you have no idea how much seeing Matrix do what it has kills me. Thats one of the reasons I left CC for so long. Just utterly fed up and depressed, was very ill. I had had enough of being ripped off by so many people.
It was a major blow to me finding Ryans Forum gone!
Its very easy to say in hindsight, this should have been done or this. Hindsight is a great fixer :)
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
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Nomada, all of those sites are a rip off, I know about ModDb and other sites, I even tried the cheap US server as recommended by Mooxe, but found them them useless, at least in my case.
I do not agree, they would be a rip off if you would pay anything by them but they are free at 100%. I feel that you have not tried them and you do not want use them because you can center everything at you and control all the files. At moddb at least people out the community would know about it. The lack of publicity probably has killed the chances from get new players at cc games.
And please do not tell me that a rent server is secure, the unique option secure is save the original files under our ass. The day that you can not pay it, you will lose them.
About the missing mods, some of the mods that you tell how they were missing, they were missing at your site, I saw how you uploaded my 1946 mod but always it was at my site and yes, I use free servers but thanks to it, I have been online for years.
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The money has gone to Destineer, Matrix, Sitherine, Atomic. Keith Z was violently opposed to modding in any shape or form and Slitherine are no better than Matrix.
What about simteck? please do not tell me that you were working for free. You were part of them and now because they are ignored you, you are against them. Nothing strange but the people from the CC community, they do not want more than play new games and the mods if they are made. One thing which at least by the moment, they are making it.
About Squad Assault.....sorry but I can not ignore the true. These are the credits from this disaster of game. http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=43786&tab=credits
I´m sure at 100% how you knew about the bad gameplay from the game, if I´m not wrong, you are Shaun Wallace and between other credits, you were Playtest Coordinator. Really this game was a blackmail to the CC community because it was the older G.I Combat with few changes, another blackmail.
Now if you love the CC games, you would give a chance to Steve and Slitherine, at least I want see what they are making. If the first CC game was made at a garage, the new made with a good 3D engine, one engine used at many other good games, I feel how it can not be as one Squad Assault.
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
@Sulla: I really feel sorry for what you have gone through mate and I am glad that you feel better now. Even though I wasn't much active at CSO, I was very happy to hear that it went online again. So welcome back!
So you say that you have the source code and you would ideally like an open-source project to be initiated for developing the next CC. Have you ever considered making a Kickstarter thing for such a project? I have been thinking for the last couple of months, seeing how successful Kickstarter campaigns for many other games have been, such a thing can surely be done for a CC game as well.
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