That would be me? As a handler? When we started working on CC, the only source code was CCM, which had large chunks missing. It took 4 years to get the source code for the others and as I said, it was in KZ's garage on some CDs and HDs, which would by now if left probably be useless, as it was some of the data on the HDs had to be recovered as the disks were unreadable.
I do think we should be thankful to those (you included) that worked to get the code from Keith Z. Doesn't sound like the man was easy to deal with.
I'm not sure I understand what your vision is/was for CC. We didn't see anything change gameplay-wise for the better in CoI, and even the changes in WAR, TLD, and LSA (which, I know, you weren't a part of) were rather minor. CoI introduced the girly soldiers, and it's still a problem, albeit it not as bad, in GTC.
One thing you have talked about was wanting a Total War-like strat map with supply lines, etc. That seems a bit much, and would probably take away from the core focus of the game (the battles). I think the improvements in the strat map don't need to go to that level, and have already went too far in PTiF/GTC (with arty and air interdiction making movement impossible). The current strat map gameplay with some minor enhancements (such as rest/refitting/reinforcing) is all that is needed. Anyways, that's just one aspect of the game you have mentioned.
I'm definitely tired of Close Combat being made with the wants of only one (a "project director"), or a few privileged individuals, in mind. That obviously can't be the case with any community-led project. This seems to be how it's operated with every release since CC5. Plenty of people with experience with game have voiced their opinions only to be ignored, and sometimes struck down--you and some of those around you behaved poorly when faced with criticism during/after CoI's release.
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EYSA is what GI Combat was meant to be. Aside from the Mad Bunny's game of hide and seek......Strategy First was having a MAJOR financial crunch that year. They literally shoved GI Combat and 5 other titles out the door that November to get the holiday sales in hopes of saving some of the Canadian business sites. Wasn't the original/target release date for GI Combat sometime the follow spring Shaun? Anyways, after the GI Combat release debacle it was decided by the powers that be to do it correctly.......EYSA. Major potential there even with some of the weird camera issues.
Who worked on EYSA and GI Combat? I didn't realize that you guys were involved with those games.
I don't think either game had any potential. There have been much better attempts since then (Theatre of War, Operation Star) and it still doesn't work. It's hard to make the game fun and controllable at those camera angles, in that scale, in real-time. Judging from the two screenshots of The Bloody First, they seem to be heading in the right direction (at least regarding the camera angle).
Not too many people here ever had to deal with Keith "stop fucking with my data" Zabalaoui in person or on phone. Even the rare conference call was a bit psycho with that guy. Atomic/CC was his baby and treated it that way with any and all comers.
EYSA is what GI Combat was meant to be. Aside from the Mad Bunny's game of hide and seek......Strategy First was having a MAJOR financial crunch that year. They literally shoved GI Combat and 5 other titles out the door that November to get the holiday sales in hopes of saving some of the Canadian business sites. Wasn't the original/target release date for GI Combat sometime the follow spring Shaun? Anyways, after the GI Combat release debacle it was decided by the powers that be to do it correctly.......EYSA. Major potential there even with some of the weird camera issues.
Destineer is now one (1) and only one man. The last workers have been gone for some time and a few friends ended up at Encore here in the Twin Cities.
Matrix and a few of those leaders screwed over more than a few people. I still kept ALL of the emails/docs from that timeframe to cover my ass! And it's been a damn decade.
I see Nomada is his usual charming self.....hasn't changed a bit. Not one.
Vic - this is a very good summary of the history as I've heard it. What about what Sulla said...Doug Walker is the genius that coded the original CC games? Does somebody know Doug?
I'm definitely tired of Close Combat being made with the wants of only one (a "project director"), or a few privileged individuals, in mind. That obviously can't be the case with any community-led project. This seems to be how it's operated with every release since CC5. Plenty of people with experience with game have voiced their opinions only to be ignored, and sometimes struck down--you and some of those around you behaved poorly when faced with criticism during/after CoI's release.
Definitely, I agree with this and all the other words tell by you when you wrote it. This is the type of idea that I and probably many others defend. At the end the CC games were developed by a dictatorship and many of the changes were based at the preferences from one guy ignoring all the previous good things and the opinions from the community.
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We didn't see anything change gameplay-wise for the better in CoI, and even the changes in WAR, TLD, and LSA (which, I know, you weren't a part of) were rather minor. CoI introduced the girly soldiers, and it's still a problem, albeit it not as bad, in GTC.
I can not be more agree with this. Totally true. In fact I have told it for the last messages but he does not like the true.
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Who worked on EYSA and GI Combat? I didn't realize that you guys were involved with those games.
They should not be proud of these. They were a shit and remembering your opinion about how the community were ignored, all the beta testers from these games told how they were bad and they were ignored. These developers have proven for years how usually they ignore the true in favor of their own thoughts.
About other questions, I was remembering the opinion about how many old people is far war from the CC games and it is funny see how the people which they are far away, they are mostly the people which they were involved in the development from the CC games. All the others which they were not involved, most of them continue around here. It is very curious.
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EYSA is what GI Combat was meant to be. Aside from the Mad Bunny's game of hide and seek......Strategy First was having a MAJOR financial crunch that year. They literally shoved GI Combat and 5 other titles out the door that November to get the holiday sales in hopes of saving some of the Canadian business sites. Wasn't the original/target release date for GI Combat sometime the follow spring Shaun? Anyways, after the GI Combat release debacle it was decided by the powers that be to do it correctly.......EYSA. Major potential there even with some of the weird camera issues.
Who worked on EYSA and GI Combat? I didn't realize that you guys were involved with those games.
I don't think either game had any potential. There have been much better attempts since then (Theatre of War, Operation Star) and it still doesn't work. It's hard to make the game fun and controllable at those camera angles, in that scale, in real-time. Judging from the two screenshots of The Bloody First, they seem to be heading in the right direction (at least regarding the camera angle).
Look at the credits for both......basically a Close Combat who's who. Eric/Shaun/Jim/Mike/Chuck/John/others formed Freedom Games with Strategy First as the publisher. Another issue I remember is that Freedom Games had their own testers (basically all the big CC modders like Mick, Ross, Reiryc, etc;) and Strategy First had theirs with a single db for tracking. Issue was I remember the Strategy First people would either close or remove things from the db. Kinda frustrating.
Not too many people here ever had to deal with Keith "stop fucking with my data" Zabalaoui in person or on phone. Even the rare conference call was a bit psycho with that guy. Atomic/CC was his baby and treated it that way with any and all comers.
EYSA is what GI Combat was meant to be. Aside from the Mad Bunny's game of hide and seek......Strategy First was having a MAJOR financial crunch that year. They literally shoved GI Combat and 5 other titles out the door that November to get the holiday sales in hopes of saving some of the Canadian business sites. Wasn't the original/target release date for GI Combat sometime the follow spring Shaun? Anyways, after the GI Combat release debacle it was decided by the powers that be to do it correctly.......EYSA. Major potential there even with some of the weird camera issues.
Destineer is now one (1) and only one man. The last workers have been gone for some time and a few friends ended up at Encore here in the Twin Cities.
Matrix and a few of those leaders screwed over more than a few people. I still kept ALL of the emails/docs from that timeframe to cover my ass! And it's been a damn decade.
I see Nomada is his usual charming self.....hasn't changed a bit. Not one.
Vic - this is a very good summary of the history as I've heard it. What about what Sulla said...Doug Walker is the genius that coded the original CC games? Does somebody know Doug?
Doug is still at DAS I think.....Shaun may know for sure.
He was the head of development there and may still be. Anyways and IIRC....after EYSA came out via Matrix.....Freedom Games was either acquired or merged with DAS and they put out the Second Front release/mod packs. Eric went to work there doing the VICE stuff for the military for years after.
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
On the future CC front,
For Strat map, something on the lines of "Unity of Command" it deals with support logistics very elegantly
For the core battles --> polishing and polish some more. Add missing features but no need to reinvent the formula;
Add some more options to the map view, to-gable layers obfuscating the map parts not in sight or range etc;
Throw in Co-Op;
icing:
The ability to "stish" battle maps on the go would be great allowing the battle to spill on the next map. Dont know how feasible this would be but anything that "dissolves" the battle map borders would be a great addition, allowing follow up attacks or holding that spot because reinforces are on the way, exploring gaps etc.
+
Map editor & tools on the the game box.
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
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Look at the credits for both......basically a Close Combat who's who. Eric/Shaun/Jim/Mike/Chuck/John/others formed Freedom Games with Strategy First as the publisher. Another issue I remember is that Freedom Games had their own testers (basically all the big CC modders like Mick, Ross, Reiryc, etc;) and Strategy First had theirs with a single db for tracking. Issue was I remember the Strategy First people would either close or remove things from the db. Kinda frustrating.
I tested G.I Combat and I do not remember to nobody from Strategy First deleting nothing, in fact they knew how the game was but Freedom games did not want make changes and they have a previous agreement with Freedom games which they would receive the money because at the end, they made the game, even if it was a piece of shit.
The most funny is how never I have read nothing bad coming from the creators....probably they are proud but it was a shit, they are so bad than even nobody would add them in the list from the worse games.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:47 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
Interesting to learn the history behind CC development and how much passion goes into the creative process and how deep are the disappointments.
For some reason CC is game that is a perfect fit for me, the right mix of history and real time gaming. I wish Sulla all the best, it would be heartbreaking to see something I worked so hard on stolen from me. I can feel your pain. I hope that somehow your dreams come true. And it sounds like that the game you are envisioning would be all we are hoping for in CC community.
Pt
Last edited by pt11070 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
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it would be heartbreaking to see something I worked so hard on stolen from me.
Really we have not more than his own words about it. He has not showed any contract or copyright, just as another modder claiming rights without any proofs.
Just because he sayed how he had a company with the rights about it, it does not say that it be true.
If I do not understand badly, he suffered the heart attack before he was expulsed from Slitherine proyect. All we know how a bad alimentation, alcohol and smoke can provoke it.
At the end, it is funny, he speaks about rights but he takes everything from the people without ask....what curious...He did not ask me about publish my mods at his site. What can I claim? nothing. The same than him with the Close Combat games.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:34 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
NF you remind me of an old man that has a comment for everything, but understands nothing. You are good man, just understand that some things do not involve you or revolve around you.
Sulla, please do not respond to NF, ever. He does not deserve it. I respect you and your dream.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
Hence my term narcissist to describe NF. I don't get it why NF has such hate on Sulla.
If anything I think Sulla, has the solution. It sounds like a good idea take away the obstructionists at Matrix...start over with some real $ budget and recruit some of the best guru's that made the game great. Somebody call Doug Walker. He's probably making the Big $ at that simulation company....but then again CC2 made a boatload of cash, so if he was one of the principal's it might work.
PJ had temper tantrums with his fellow Frenchman Zappi and others on this site, now NF has done that with Sulla. PJ would always complain about people not being worthy of posting his mods ...just like NF.
He does not deserve it. I respect you and your dream.
What about Steve, his team and Slitherine? what do they deserve? because I have seen a lot of shit against them written by him, things very hypocrit as "Slitherine is not thinking at more than win money", all we know how Freedom Games and Simteck were not made for do not win money and Sulla is not the mother Teresa of Calcuta.
Sorry but I need proofs before accept everything in the world.
dj would not know what is a narcissist even if he has it in front of his face. I do not hate to anybody here. Just I remember the true as we know it. dj I recomend you to use the wikipedia, you do not know what is a narcissist, probably you should return to the school, it would be good for you. At the end, I go to ignore you because you are nobody as one before who he entered insulting to the others and this is not the first time that we can see it coming from you against one member and curiously against a spanish member, are you racist? probably you are the narcissist, Hitler was a big narcissist, not me.
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Sulla, if you can come up with an alternative CC to Matrix/Slitherine I would definitely take a look at the product/result....
I agree. Even I would pay it if it was good or I would help freely if I was asked but I do not go to put money before it is finished. Modding is for free.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
@Nomada: I haven't seen anything, not a single damn thing on this thread about Sulla asking for donations/money etc. It was us who brought the possibility or the limitations of a potential Kickstarter thing.
I personally believe such a thing can not be made in a commerical approach anyway, at least not in a manner the community wants. It will need to be community based, open-source stuff, voluntarily.
@Nomada: I haven't seen anything, not a single damn thing on this thread about Sulla asking for donations/money etc. It was us who brought the possibility or the limitations of a potential Kickstarter thing.
Because you have not read all the answers....he wrote this and for many answers we spoke about money and more money, always by the money and the revenge against Slitherine because they did not payed to him.
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I have actually thought about Kickstarter. I really do think that working together is the way to go. ALL of us.
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If Dima and stwa are doing the data I'd expect this to be in 2208
Very funny. I agree. I do not see to anybody here who he can make some like this and I do not remember to anybody from the past who he knew enough about code for to work at this. The unique exceptions were Mafi and I do not go to count to the blood because he was not a modder.
At this moment, I and all the community, we would be happier if the amount of mods are increased, specially for the last CC.
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