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dj

Rep: 145.9
votes: 8


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

sod98 wrote (View Post):
In reply to some of the inaccuracies started in this blog. Start from last til I get bored. As most of the posts are I'll informed, reactive and gullible.


Yes we all heard the Iraq story a 1000 times to justify Russia aggression...we all know Iraq agenda was based on fraud and lies.  Different American President & foreign policy...you're hedging...

So has Russia done anything wrong at all?  You make it sound like the West and America are the bad guys here and set-up Putin in a conspiracy.  Moreover we all have blood on our hands at some point in history.  That again does not make it a blank check to get revenge against the "West" and their allies.

You actually proved my earlier point that pro-Russian militia (probably with help from Russian "advisors") had already been shooting down Ukrainian fighters with high altitude SA missiles.  Even if a military jet was flying near the Malaysian Airlines flight path...it still doesn't justify the assault.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Needless to say.. This would never happen if the US had a leader with a set of wabos.

Russian  Tu95 penetrate US Airspace
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dj

Rep: 145.9
votes: 8


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

johnsilver wrote (View Post):
Needless to say.. This would never happen if the US had a leader with a set of wabos.

Russian  Tu95 penetrate US Airspace


Johnsliver returns with his usual troll idiot comments.  You always say the same stupid comments about how you think Obama doesn't have balls, is bad for the military ,etc.  You and your right-wing fanatic fan base have absolutely zero to offer...so all you can do is call Obama names, talk about impeachment or a lawsuit. Keep watching your Sean Hannity bullshit about how if Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin was President, Putin wouldn't be doing this.

All you Partisan clowns do is bitch and whine about this that and the other, yet have no actual ideas of your own.  Why don't you tell us again not to enlist in the military when Obama is in office, or attack the President during a time of war.  It wasn't ok for John Kerry to do that during Vietnam (even though he was a combat veteran)...but it's okay for your party to do that when the shoe is on the other foot. How convenient.

You have only yourselves to blame for America looking weak when all your side does is obsess over the best way to Fuk over Obama politically instead of provide something useful for the nation.  We have only ourselves to look to for such a piece of shit Government bent on vengeful dysfunctional Govt.
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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 54.8
votes: 1


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Well dj I have never seen anyone who goes to the lengths that you do to defend anyone, especially someone like Obama who is doing his utmost to go against this nation's Constitution. Someone would have to be blind not to recognize the extremes he is going to transform this country for the worse, which is one campaign issue he is carrying out to the letter. Many times going outside the law which makes him a LAWBREAKER. And don't try calling me a Bush lover as I was never very happy with where I saw he was taking the nation either.

Jonathan Turley, a liberal law professor at George Washington University, warned yesterday that President Obama’s increasing use of executive power has placed the nation at a “constitutional tipping point.”

“The fact that I happen to think the president is right on many of these policies does not alter the fact that I believe the means he is doing [it] is wrong,” Turley said, “and that this can be a dangerous change in our system. “

I will ask you one thing though: Is there anything this fraud in the White House has done that you have ever disapproved of? I asked this of my liberal brother-in-law and all he said is Obama wasn't socialist enough.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Don't call me a troll or idotic you dolt. Plain facts you cannot stomach.

Everytime you go back and cherry pick times and events (which you have).

All it takes for ultra liberals (like obama and his kind) is to have a backbone on foreign policy. They don't have to go overboard and attack everyone (like Bush, too much, I know). Think Reagan, hell.. Think Ike. Just talk tough, not act like a damn weasel.. Carter, even Clinton that had to have a republican congress to force him to act.

That's all I am asking.

Man... I come from a family that was blue dog democrats for GENERATIONS.. The party left them (us) values changed, they took off HARD left during the 70's and really fell off the table during the 80's. There are hardly and blue dogs left now, they made up the entire party, now it's ran by (no insult intended) Pelosi's and that type.

get them back and I think US politics will change, more LBJ's.

Werf.
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mooxe

Rep: 213.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Quote:
Jonathan Turley, a liberal law professor at George Washington University, warned yesterday that President Obama’s increasing use of executive power has placed the nation at a “constitutional tipping point.”


http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/executiveorders.asp The article is a bit behind, by about 40 executive orders for Obama.

I was reading that blog site of Jonathan Turley that led me to Snopes.com. As far as I can tell from Snopes, Wikipedia, Forbes and a slew of other sites, Obama has not used as many executive orders as many previous presidents. I am kind of surprised actually, from an outsiders point of view Congress and the Senate both seem like they can't accomplish anything. I figured Obama would of used more of his executive powers in this situation.

Anyways, this is a thread on Russia.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

This is an interesting twist on things article am about to link.

Have been reading ramblings about NATO recently and Ukraine, but never as serious as today.

Am NOT trying to get any political dudes here fired up (and wasn't earlier either), but does anyone see NATO actually invoking charter 5 think it is that guarantees coming to the defense of another member if they are attacked?

I understand Ukraine isn't a member, but the way Rasmussen is talking in this article and have seen in others (not on conservative sites) I have to wonder just how far NATO is willing to go and if they do decide to get all uppity, just who is going to provide the muscle?

It's getting dicey.

Edit:

Forgot the link...NATO
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mooxe

Rep: 213.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

NATO pledges unwavering support. Define support. Unwavering support in delivering non-lethal military support equipment (like Canada).
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Right Mooxe. How will it start and what will it lead to? Will it begin as humanitarian supplies, then trickle in observation flights/drones, then lend in NATO fighters/bombers?

What happens even if those humanitarian supply aircraft come under fire?

I just spend 10 minutes looking for one article was going to google, thought it was Dick Morris, but it wasn't. Then went round-n-round and can't find it.. Here is one little clip that does show one huge profound weakness and an issue I have with it and Canadians should also:

Quote:
First, the military weakness of Europe has long meant that for all practical purposes, NATO is ATO — the American Treaty Organization. The European Union may have a gross domestic product and population larger than the United States, but on average its members spend far less than half of what America budgets for defense.


US and Canada for that matter have long since pulled the majority of troops away from Europe. Sure, bases are there, but it's a whole different ball game than it was pre Gorby.

Carrier force has been decimated. Yes.. A handful of new ones (super carriers) have been added, but the old stalwarts from 'Nam and slightly before have been moth balled and scrapped by the dozen literally. Forrestal, Lady lex Coral Sea, etc.. the last 20y.

Lets hope this Ukraine situation can be resolved diplomatically. I see no need for a military (NATO) force being involved, even if they are there only in a supposed humanitarian way, unless all members are prepared to pay the piper if the involvement goes sideways.

Edit:

Forgot article link again that the quote came from:

Nato story
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
As far as I can tell from Snopes, Wikipedia, Forbes and a slew of other sites, Obama has not used as many executive orders as many previous presidents.


Such a compelling argument!

Executive Order #1: Transgenders may now use the Mens and Womens restrooms in the Capital Buildings, White House, and at the Washington Monument.

Executive Order #2: TSA shall and immediately establish security checkpoints at every United States Post Office in America.
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

DJ said -

Yes we all heard the Iraq story a 1000 times to justify Russia aggression...we all know Iraq agenda was based on fraud and lies.  Different American President & foreign policy...you're hedging...

So has Russia done anything wrong at all?  You make it sound like the West and America are the bad guys here and set-up Putin in a conspiracy.  Moreover we all have blood on our hands at some point in history.  That again does not make it a blank check to get revenge against the "West" and their allies.




The Iraqi story has nothing to do with the supposed Russian aggression to justify anything. It paints a picture to those who aren't blinded by patriotism or apathy. If Russia was such an aggressor then since WW2  just compare the US and Russia / USSR aggressor records. Yes the USA by it's own definition fits the description of a terrorist state. The tell us in your wisdom why the likes for the US and GB feel that liberating countries by killing 114,000 civilians, destroying a countries infrastructure are ok. It doesn't matter what US President is in Office the Foreign policy is the same. Wakey , wakey, it hasn't changed since Vietnam. Then there is the little matter of why the West can do these things with no repercussions. Serbs leaders are tried and some executed and Saddam executed. Is this that thing called Democracy but should be spelt hypocrisy. we all use to laugh at USSR and China with their over the top spying on the general public - now common practice in the West. Nothing justifies the downing of MH17 but only fools jump before any evidence or findings released - DJ that fits you.

As I said Russia isn't perfect but that Foreign Policy records of both countries are light years apart to anyone except those who are sado pologistic, gullible, naive and weak minded. You have proved that point for me thanks again.

What revenge against the West are you talking about. Your whole statements does read like a kids jumble of excuses lacking facts, reason or common sense. I do suggest next time to do a little research so you don't embarrass yourself further with your paranoid rants. Not to mention your generalisations that I lend credence to your statement over Russia assisting the downing of MH17. If you read that into anything seriously seek help - you are deluded. Sorry kid if the facts hurt your view of Hollywood democracy - have a drink of warm milk to settle your frayed nerves.
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dj

Rep: 145.9
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Trainwreck...laughable comments.  John and Schmal FoxNews clones that get all their new info from Partisan right-wing slanted sources.  Schmal you in own your own words admitted to watching FoxNews.  If I watched FoxNews, I would be indoctrinated into thinking Obama was "lawless" or conspiring to cover-up Bengazhi.  How is the lawsuit working out or that $30 million investigation using my tax $ to try to find some dirt on Benghazi?  I love how John acts innocent and pretends he never said Obama doesn't have balls...then spin it around and say I'm some political dude when you're the one that instigated.

Mooxe said it best...the Current American President has fewer executive orders compared to other Presidents.  Not only that you're conveniently skipping the little part about the Scorch Earth political tactics of the opposition party.  They sabotage every thing he does, never even wants to negotiate like any other normal Govt would do.  Only the FoxNews clones would take a thread on Russia to spin it around on attack on Obama.  Mitch McConnell openly admitted on video that is the #1 agenda of the party is to oppose Obama for everything he tries to do.

As far as Sod's comments are concerned...again way off topic.  Serbia?  They were caught committing genocide, plain and simple...by the Hague, NOT by Yankee court of law.  Again Iraq was already addressed and yes there is huge a difference with Presidents and their policies, you're wrong.  If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now.  Nice try Sod, you ignored my question about Russia not doing anything wrong and said the "policy" isn't perfect?  Really?  That was a nice bait and switch to just attack me instead of actually answering my question.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
from an outsiders point of view Congress and the Senate both seem like they can't accomplish anything. I figured Obama would of used more of his executive powers in this situation. Anyways, this is a thread on Russia.



Link
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Quote:
If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now.


Lets try to keep it kind of real at least DJ.

I do have a terrible prediction however, just one of those horrible, off the walll things that one hopes never happens, but we all know is going to one day. The next nuke attack will be a terrorist hit and it will be against the Israelis, probably from Hezbollah on another jab in the dark. I also think the response will bring a terrible response from Israel, not Nuclear, but another terrible weapon in Napalm that could set the Middle East abalze in war.

That thought (terrible, I know) has gone through my head since the Shah of Iran was deposed and it's going to happen one day is my terrible gut feeling.

Apologies for going off topic guys.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

So here I am back again from my trip to the Russian Far East and then Iceland Smile.

Troger,

Troger wrote (View Post):
Dima wrote (View Post):
the report of the EU comission clearly said Georgia attacked, Russian retaliated.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/europe/29georgia.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0  
http://www.dw.de/independent-report-blames-georgia-for-south-ossetia-war/a-4746802  

Georgia might have initiated things militarily but Russia encouraged the rebels who openly resisted governance by Tbilisi.  Donetsk and Luhansk are basically a repeat of South Ossetia without Russian intervention.

check how and why the South Ossetia and Abkhazia got independent from Georgia and why Russia had a Peace keeping unit there.

Quote:

Was the brutal subjugation of American Indians taught to you in school?
We conquered Crimea in XVIII century - Osman Empire refused their rights on Crimea after loss in 1774 year war. The remaining Tatars were allowed to leave in Crimea. So?
Why do you bring up the plight of the American Indians?  I asked you a serious question, I wasn't being sarcastic.  But yes, they teach the history of how early Americans destroyed the Indian way of life, it's not hidden or distorted.  And there are some Americans who probably could care less about what happened (the grunts, as you would call them), but most sensible people recognize that it was an atrocity.

I thought you were talking about XVIII century and the massacre we did there...that's why made an anology with Indians.

Quote:
I'm wondering if your history books talk about the more recent treatment of Tartars by the communists.  I read and heard so many comments that made it seem like some Russians regarded Crimea as "always" a part of Russia, which is nonsense.

yes, nothing bad in it, they colloborated with the Germans in a very harsh way during the occupation of Crimea and in a whole got what they deserved.
still, you can recall the internment of Japanese in the USA during the war - or is it really different to you? :)

Quote:
And I actually think the annexation of Crimea by Russia is a good thing.  The majority of people there are Russian now, so it seems fit for it to be a part of Russia.  And, the big plus for the Ukraine is the ~2million less voters who normally vote for the Party of Regions and the communists.

yeah, but it is in so poor condition that Russia has to invest huge amounts to just get it to average Russian standards. F.e. my region, Kaliningrad, will get 10 times less till 2020 from the Federal budget because of Crimea.

Quote:
Dima wrote (View Post):

the militia says they can't get modern ATGM from Russia. Whom should we believe you or them?

Come on Dima, it's a fact that Russia is supplying arms to the rebels.  And, why wouldn't Russia arm them?  It makes sense for them to support ethnic Russians.

no doubt about small arms, ammo and maybe even some RPGs but for now no evidence of any heavy weapon supplied to them from Russia.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Dima wrote (View Post):
Don't you think that having almost 20% less corruption in 3 years is a good results?

No, it doesn’t say Russia has 20 % less corruption. Where can you see that?

Again:
Quote:
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2010/results
According to the Transparence International Corruption Perceptions Index Russia went from place 154 (out of 178) in 2010 to place 127 (out of 175) in 2013.

is not it a 20% difference (+/-) between place 154 (2010) and 127 (2013)?

Quote:
But the question is… As Putin came to power in 1999, now its 15 years later… The country he rules over is ranked at 35 from the bottom, or 48 at the bottom as thee worst corrupt countries in the world…

but does Russia progress in fighting corruption according to Transparency International in last year? It looks like that for me. 

Quote:
And you think Putin is doing fine after 15 years in power?

show me where did I tell that Putin is/was doing fine? 

Quote:
Is that all it takes to make Russians happy?

we are happy to see progress Wink
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Dima wrote (View Post):
{...] stats showing growth for Russia in last years? and again, that's not because of great Putin but because of the good prices for natural resources.

So you do agree afterall.. Kaputin.  Very Happy  

you are arguing with yourself about Putin not me Wink.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
sorry to disappoint you but there was Jeltsin and Gorbachev Russia 22 years ago Wink. so whom to blame?
And here we have the usual blame game of the Russian media/politicians.
If the car doesn’t start in the morning, the average Russian say “its that dammed Jeltsins fault”.. And now if more than half of Africans countries move ahead Russia in the desirable indexes Russians collectively say, “its that dammed …. fault.”.
Remember, not to hold kaputin accountable, he’s only been in power for 15 years…
We heard it a million times, “Its all Jeltsin’s fault and/or Gorbatjev’s fault.”
Is that really so, is it true or is it just a myth, or is the truth some ware in-between?


sometimes it seems to me that you are totally drunk posting these posts Wink.
you told:
Quote:
Putin Russia had 0 [zero] life expectancy increase in 22 years.

I replied:
Quote:
sorry to disappoint you but there was Eltsin and Gorbachev Russia 22 years ago Wink. so whom to blame?

so look at this chart again:
http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SP.DYN.LE00.IN/compare?country=iq#country=ru
and you could see that life expectancy dropped to 65 years by the year 2000.
so obviously Russia made it well to increase it to 69 in 13 years since 2000. SEE?

Quote:
I have a theory, that Jeltsin did both good and bad. Lets see.. As we have debated before, childbirth and that translates to child mortality..  Its rather important indicators as they are not only tragic but also affect the life expectancy. They show how well the health care in a country works, as well as how the state manage to take care of the less fortunate giving everyone a “equal” start in life...    
I attach a image of child mortality, and marks the Jeltsin and kaputin era on it.. WHO data.
Now, how about that?

Aaahh, do not you see that that graph 5.9 you attached IS showing that a number of still-birth and death of children is decreasing every year in Russia?! (tip: the less is better here Wink )

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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Dima mate your funny.

I was funny in Iceland last Sunday after 1l of whiskey Very Happy

Quote:
You have not heard of Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin::
wow never heard about that guy Smile looks like a crazy mean bastard

yes, I've never heared about him.
but I've called my friend who is in politics and in charge of the office of Transparency International in Kaliningrad and he told me that he indeed crazy and is an ideologist of Putin, not the UR party though.
always good to know something new Smile.

Quote:
And then you point me to this book, to educate me:
mate, the problem was not in war we had but in lost connections in ex-republics..I suggest you to read this book to understand the USSR economics and industry - http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Empire-Lessons-Modern-Russia/dp/0815731140  
And when I reading the book, I fined that the author startes the book with qoutes of Dugin, see the first attachment named Dugin.gif.

good, don't remember he was mentioned there.
did it help you to understand more about USSR? Wink

Quote:
Dima mate, I just cant help it, but it feels just a tiny little bit like you have not read the book at all.
Because the book contradicts most you argued here.  I also found this:
(qouts are in the images attached)
1. The author believes that Gorbatjev and the commy should have done what Jeltsin did, liberal economy..
2. The author thinks Russian is playing a blame game, tin foils en masse.. (green aria)
3. (In the first part of yellow, he talks about Jeltsin era) Jeltsin created an economic system that was chock resistant, imperfekt but yet... Then, came the worrying signes... Putin started to reverse things…  
4. The free media was destroyed in the early 2000. (blue)
5. He also suggests that the “autonomy” of the regions is just a chasm.
6. The author argues that Russia is lagging behind 50 years, compared with the developed world. . (red)
Attached a image with the qouts..

show me where did I post anything really contradicting these points Wink.
btw Gaidar was a first prime-minister in Russia and idelogist of all that chock therapy economy that actually led to the huge drop of life level by the year 2000. The grunts still hate him very much Smile.


Last edited by Dima on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
As its important to know our future masters..  

Let me present our dear Mr:  Vladimir Zjirinovskij

Vladimir Zjirinovskij twice vice chairman of the Russian Duma.
He’s a colonel in the Russian army.
Founder and leader of Liberal Democrat Party of Russia. (na, hes not a democrat)

This guys agenda is to retake the former Russian empire borders, and beyond. That includes Finland, Baltics, Poland, Georgia and Ukraine etc etc and even Alaska, even India!  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zhirinovsky

I don’t really like Videos, but take a look at this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JnToiuWL2A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbifHevHekE

In any civilized country one such performance is enough…

Theres more vids...

You think he’s a clown..? Your wrong. Within some years, this guy may well be the person who has the keys to half the worlds nukes.

Russians love this man, election result:
year; type of election; result
1991 presidential elections – 8%
1993 Duma elections – 23%
1995 Duma elections – 11%
1996 presidential elections – 6%
1999 Duma elections – 5.98% (it contested them as the 'Zhirinovsky Bloc')
2000 presidential elections – 2.7%
2003 Duma elections – 12%
2007 Duma elections – 8.8%
2008 presidential election – 9.35% [17]
2011 Duma elections – 12.5%
2012 presidential election – 6.2%

just to open you eyes - LDPR/Zhirinovsky is a Kremlin project of 90s to take Empire dreaming electorate from the KPR (commies).
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