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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:16 am Post subject: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

The Killing of Osama bin Laden
by Seymour M. Hersh

London Review of Books

When I first heard about the Hersh story I was very skeptical. After reading the Hersh story I have no doubt that the narrative is false.

Pakistani ISI sources probably did tell Hersh this story. It is a conspiracy theory of their own making. No Pakistani officials knew that bin Laden was hiding in a compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan until after the raid. The Pakistani Military lost face as a result of the successful SEAL mission. The Leader of Pakistan and the ISI must have used this story to their own subordinates to maintain their integrity. It is not hard to imagine the leader of Pakistan talking to his general, saying "Of course we knew bin Laden was here, he was under our control, like everything else in Pakistan, we allowed the US to capture him."




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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:25 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

The Killing of Osama bin Laden by Seymour M. Hersh

Without the evidence I agree with you. The original story stands until evidence of any different story surfaces. But do keep in mind this guy has history of backing up his stories with great facts - My Lai, Abu Ghraib etc.

A side show - I see US has put boots on the ground in Syria - Black Op. Breech of another countries sovereignty.
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dj

Rep: 142.2
votes: 8


PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

MSNBC had a live interview with Hersch and they really grilled him.  They asked him about his sources and he of course was very vague.  NBC later verified there were in fact discrepancies with the account as told by the media.  Yes Pakistani intelligence "walked-in" (actually he was former Intelligence not active-duty) but only due to greed so he could get reward $.  So that part wasn't a lie by Hersh. However the Courier may have already tipped us off to the location regardless of the walk-in informant.

The part that was a lie apparently was the incident as described by the media onboard the USS Carl Vinson.  It is a moot point though because still doesn't change the fact we got Bin Laden, took his body, photographed him etc.
Even the most ardent political enemies in Congress were shown the autopsy photos and acknowledged it was a fact we got him.  Hersh seems to have bias toward Obama Admin and was extremely critical and basically called him a liar when in fact it was the DoD and Intel communities that ran the operations, not the White House.  Obama simply ordered not to bomb the compound as originally planned and instead use a hit and run raid to get him.  The President doesn't control every minute detail of Special Ops warfare.
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Captain-Insano

Rep: 3.5


PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

Dr. Steve Pieczenik. who personally worked with Osama Bin Laden confirmed that Osama died around the time of the 9-11 attack. However the news of his death had been purposefully withdrawn from general public to be announced at a more politically convenient time. Osama Bin Laden had been dead for years, however announcing his death back then would not have delivered an anticipated impact.

There has been nothing but withdrawn statements, fake pictures, story of his body being dumped into the sea and other lies from Barack Obama and his fellow high officials who are having a hard time fooling everyone. Obama sheep buy it but not everyone is that clueless. Do you really believe they caught the most wanted man on the planet and threw him in the ocean? Where I live they call it the show me state because we think think your full of it unless you show some proof, and they haven't shown anything.

In April 2002, Steve R. Pieczenik – member of Council on Foreign Relations, who served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, and James Baker, told Alex Jones that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months”. Osama Bin Laden had been dead for months In April 2002.

Dr. Steve Pieczenik is one of the most fearless former high politicians who knows what he’s talking about. It doesn’t get any more credible than that. Because George Bush’s presidency gained momentum when he declared war on terror, there was no sense in trying to boost his ratings in the eyes of average American any more so the people behind the curtain left this high card in their sleeve until the end of Barack Obama’s presidential term. Barack Obama is otherwise a major failure so if killing of Osama Bin Laden is assigned to him, he would be seen by a majority of Americans as a hero which would both boost his pre-election ratings, but it would also take focus away from collapsing economy and ongoing war in Middle East which takes money away from the tax payers to give it to private contractors who are raking in trillions of dollars.

Back to Steve Pieczenik – aside from serving under three different administrations as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, Dr. Steve Pieczenik also worked under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. Dr. Steve Pieczenik is a former US Navy Captain, achiever of two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School where he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.

Dr. Steve Pieczenik developed the basic tenets for psychological warfare, counter terrorism, strategy and tactics for transcultural negotiations for the US State Department, military and intelligence communities and other agencies of the US Government, while also developing foundational strategies for hostage rescue that were later employed around the world. He was originally recruited by Lawrence Eagleburger.

Dr. Steve Pieczenik also served as a senior policy planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker and worked on George W. Bush’s election campaign against Al Gore. He is without doubt one of the best connected men in intelligence circles, with his connections extending over the past three decades.

As Dr. Steve Pieczenik mentions in the video (below), Osama Bin Laden suffered from Marfan Syndrome which is a disease that significantly shortens the lifespan of patients who suffer from it. It is unlikely that a person who suffered from Marfan Syndrome would survive for an extra 10 years. Madeleine Albright, former Secretary of State under President Clinton said that the Bush administration may already have killed Osama bin Laden and will release the news just before next year’s presidential election. Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari said in 2009 that counterparts in the American intelligence agencies hadn’t heard anything from Bin Laden in seven years… I don’t think he's alive.

Osama was known to be a sick man and there were reports of CIA doctors visiting him. Guardian The Washington Post reported that the CIA admits to making fake bin laden videos. Washington Post Don't believe me check it out for yourself here is Steve Pieczenik Alex Jones Show Gordon Duff wrote a good article about bin laden being deadVeterans Today
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:52 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

The part that was a lie apparently was the incident as described by the media onboard the USS Carl Vinson.  It is a moot point though because still doesn't change the fact we got Bin Laden, took his body, photographed him etc.
Even the most ardent political enemies in Congress were shown the autopsy photos and acknowledged it was a fact we got him.  Hersh seems to have bias toward Obama Admin and was extremely critical and basically called him a liar when in fact it was the DoD and Intel communities that ran the operations, not the White House.  Obama simply ordered not to bomb the compound as originally planned and instead use a hit and run raid to get him.  The President doesn't control every minute detail of Special Ops warfare.[/quote]

Exposing wrong doing by your Govt / Obama isn't baised it's the correct thing to do. Anything else is just an apologist. Time will tell
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:46 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

The US violation of Pakistani sovereignty had consequences and not just for bin Laden.

After the raid, Pakistani political leaders and military fell into turmoil.

Memogate: The memogate controversy (also Mullen memo controversy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memogate_(Pakistan)




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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

Memogate: The memogate controversy (also Mullen memo controversy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memogate_(Pakistan)[/quote]

A very good link. But asking for assistance and delivering it at night unannounced are two different things. Then there is the question of acting without the country's best interest, beyond his own powers etc. A fine line but once crossed opens the doors for all to use - Crimea. Remember Miami, Florida is full of former dictators and heads of state from other countries that are wanted the world over.
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

US-Pakistan war of words after the raid.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-pakistan-us




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dj

Rep: 142.2
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:59 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

sod98 wrote (View Post):
The part that was a lie apparently was the incident as described by the media onboard the USS Carl Vinson.  It is a moot point though because still doesn't change the fact we got Bin Laden, took his body, photographed him etc.
Even the most ardent political enemies in Congress were shown the autopsy photos and acknowledged it was a fact we got him.  Hersh seems to have bias toward Obama Admin and was extremely critical and basically called him a liar when in fact it was the DoD and Intel communities that ran the operations, not the White House.  Obama simply ordered not to bomb the compound as originally planned and instead use a hit and run raid to get him.  The President doesn't control every minute detail of Special Ops warfare.


Exposing wrong doing by your Govt / Obama isn't baised it's the correct thing to do. Anything else is just an apologist. Time will tell[/quote]

WHAT wrong doing did the US Govt conduct with the Bin Laden raid?  Seems like you always have some type of anti-American slant on everything.  Some lies were told , usually there are lies during war .  Like Brake said there were some serious consequences with our relations with Pakistan.  Their government is barely hanging on to power and has to be careful not to agitate another rebellion and give rise to a waaay worse radical Jahadi government that murders its own people.  Last thing Pakistan needs is another fukwad fundamentalist regime.

MSNBC said Hersh only based his story on one source which is impossible to validate because he is confidential.
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

WHAT wrong doing did the US Govt conduct with the Bin Laden raid?  Seems like you always have some type of anti-American slant on everything.  Some lies were told , usually there are lies during war .  Like Brake said there were some serious consequences with our relations with Pakistan.  Their government is barely hanging on to power and has to be careful not to agitate another rebellion and give rise to a waaay worse radical Jahadi government that murders its own people.  Last thing Pakistan needs is another fukwad fundamentalist regime.

MSNBC said Hersh only based his story on one source which is impossible to validate because he is confidential.[/quote]

The Pakistan raid was without Pakistan's consent. violating Pakistan's sovereignty. The truth shouldn't be mixed up for anti-Americanism. Facts are USA's Foreign policy is the worst in the World - 73 countries attacked since WW2. Yes it is far worse than China, Russia and many other countries combined. If Pakistan falls to any other group then they sort it themselves. Current Paki govt is a military dictatorship. For many years doing USA's bidding. Why is USA in ME, Africa, Aisa and Latin America - assets and resources - oil etc.

It only needs one person with evidence. Something that the story is lacking currently. But as said before - Hersh doesn't release anything without it.
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dj

Rep: 142.2
votes: 8


PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:04 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

Typical Yankee hater.  Yes it is always America's fault with you.  Many Americans put their lives at risk to prevent civilians from getting killed in Pakistan.  That was the whole point of this raid to respect the sovereignty and our fragile alliance with Pakistan.  Would you rather Bin Laden be free?
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
Typical Yankee hater.  Yes it is always America's fault with you.  Many Americans put their lives at risk to prevent civilians from getting killed in Pakistan.  That was the whole point of this raid to respect the sovereignty and our fragile alliance with Pakistan.  Would you rather Bin Laden be free?


That is a typical non answer when someone with no defense ( naive, gullible and weak minded comment ) resorts to the - Yankee hater. I am trying to point out that clearly an illegal invasion upon Pakistan's sovereignty for right reasons or wrong can't be justified. Your paranoia clouds what would be your better judgement I hope. Invading any country such as Pakistan in this case is wrong and if the boot were on the other foot you would see that. No respect was afford to Pakistan on that occasion nor in the illegal invasion of Iraq, illegal bombing of Syria and now boots on the ground in Syria - illegal. Even down to the aiding of the Arab Spring. You fail to see that through your paranoia / scared of these so called enemies of the state.

USA has failed many times to deliver the freedoms, peace and democracy they say they have set out to provide. Every country experiencing US freedom is now far worse off - massive debt, high unemployment, low or no education and health, totally unstable Govt's, loss of infrastructure, loss of national assets etc.

Of course I am happy Bin Laden is now dead. But look at the circumstances to his rise. US aided him in Afghanistan to kick the Soviets out. Trained, equiped and supplied him and his group. USA actually encouraged Muslim extremism at that time when it suited them - that is a fact. Sadly USA was also interfering in many Middle East countries. Backing and installing dictatorships - Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt and many others. These rebel groups grow tired of US backed dicitatorships, but everytime they tried to rid themselves. USA would supply arms, tech, intel, munitions etc to keep these criminals in power. Saddam was allied to USA in a USA backed conflict against Iran. 911 is a direct result of USA being in the Middle East. Just like the invasion of Afghanistan is from 911.

You believe too much Govt sponsored propaganda that only works on the feeble minded like you. USA keeps playing the victim card over 911 without looking at the other victims of US Foreign policy - the Middle East. USA only acts in countries that will benefit them and not just for the right reasons. Otherwise why would they support Saudi Arabia over the unprovoked attacks in Yemen. the Houthis were fighting ISIS as well as the Saudi backed dicitatorship. Something Saudi A hasn't done - bomb ISIS. As explained ISIS is joint US and Saudi.

Please use facts and not your fear in your next post.
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Antony_nz

Rep: 70.4
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

[quote="dj";p="80629"]
sod98 wrote (View Post):
Their government is barely hanging on to power and has to be careful not to agitate another rebellion and give rise to a waaay worse radical Jahadi government that murders its own people.  Last thing Pakistan needs is another fukwad fundamentalist regime.

.


I did some research. Do you have any evidence to back this up? Im not sure if they are Barely hanging onto power.
Added DJ said this***
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

I did some research. Do you have any evidence to back this up? Im not sure if they are Barely hanging onto power.
Added DJ said this***[/quote]

It's called embellishing the truth to help your case at best/ desperation.
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

Secrets, Politics and Torture

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/




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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:33 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

[quote="US_Brake";p="80664"]Secrets, Politics and Torture

US isn't alone in torture. Just they videoed it and that others knew.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 1:59 am Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

C'mon Brake how come you doubt the official version?!

It's like Lone Survivor vs RL as the real Latrel made a report that they were hunted by 20-35 talibans while the official investigation stated 8-10 talibans Smile.

But kep on believing, it's easy Wink
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sod98

Rep: 11.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: The Killing of Osama bin Laden Reply with quote

It's like Lone Survivor vs RL as the real Latrel made a report that they were hunted by 20-35 talibans while the official investigation stated 8-10 talibans Smile.

Hollywood - the biggest single propaganda device in the world. You dislike someone, put out a movie. Red dawn 2 just before the Nth Korean issues and so on.

The real figures and stats of war have been fudged purposefully since during Vietnam. Germany did the same when they were losing - 43 onward basically. Before Western Allies landed in Normandy.
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