Another classic quote - " How come these people that don't like Trump, pretty much always want to take off to Canada but not Mexico? They racist or something? ".
The maple syrup cartel up there is less likely to kidnap or kill you. Plus the lingua franca is almost pidgin English.
Wikileaks has certainly added jet fuel to the fire. However, these emails usually prove nothing and just add to the conspiracies. The emails are basically tips or clues and cannot be considered proof.
If released earlier, it would of given law enforcement or investigative journalists time to study them.
Instead they were released in a huge data dump right before election. The immediate after effect was that insane amounts of disinformation was created in a frenzy and the credibility of Wikileaks weakened due to the timing of the dumps. Both of which seem counter intuitive to what it stands for.
The way I would say it is the information released by Wikileaks doesn't reveal anything majorly new. A lot of it is just confirming what we already know or suspected.
As for the timing i don't know if there is any evidence that it was deliberately released at that time. It was probably the sources fault. Not Wikileaks. (?)
Besides, you can't really blame them. (Wikileaks or Russia). She is going to win. She serves as a massive counter interest to both parties. And the timing probably gives the most impact and exposure, so we can be aware of what this persons like. A person who will lead the biggest state on earth.
Yeah, its true that Trump isn't getting the same treatment. But its probably because he isn't belligerent towards Russia.
For me, personally its like. We don't need dirt on Trump. The guy is so terrible that it shouldn't make a difference.
I mean if tomorrow we found out that he brutally raped a women, or raped a child I honestly wouldn't think any less of him
As for conspiracy's theory's. That’s another discussion. I wasn't alive in the 40s, or 60s or 80s. So i wasn't talking to people. But all i can say is conspiracy theory's are a big big threat! HUGE problem. And it seems like the problem is worst than ever.
It goes back to the argument "we don’t know the same stuff".
You know how you sometimes feel apprehensive to publicly talk about evolution? (God knows what that feeling is like inside the united states *Shudder)
Its like that.
I literary feel apprehensive to talk about NASA. About global warming. About Aliens. About history. ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST!
Because so many people have ideas that are radically different from our best understanding of facts.
Often its well intentioned honest people who start believing these things. I have little doubt that the American government is well aware of the 911 conspiracy theory's and is more than happy about the peak in popularity it received. We may one day find evidence of this.
I think there are historical examples of this. But i forgot them.
Its a reasonable possibility that some of the people who are concerned and worried about information coming to light via something like wikileaks would in fact contribute to the leaks with bad information in order the de-legitimize the leaks.
Not a crazy idea.
Governments do take online discussions seriously, Russia, China and Israel for example.
Anyway. The conspiracy theory's need to stop. I saw blatant one about Hillary Clinton comments made in private. I spent ages trying to verify it. RT news was the biggest news agency reporting it. Just shocking.
Take the Reptilian conspiracy theory. Completely insane. Very common.
These ridiculous beliefs that all the leaders are not human and all of our problems are caused by a outside force is manifestation of the hopelessness and lack of understanding of the population. There are many people and things to blame for this.
[/quote]
Love Dan Carlin! I listened to that podcast too.[/quote]
He is fantastic isn’t he? He has a real great way of talking about things. The “Martian view”. A very good way of looking at things. All you need to do is understand the facts and drop all your pre conceived biased assumptions. I realize more than ever the important of history. It’s the closest thing to a crystal ball you can get.
[quote="dj";p="85335"] Putin invaded the Crimea because the Ukrainian govt unraveled and he exploited the situation. It had nothing to do with Obama conspiring with NATO. When Ukraine had a revolution in 2014, that ousted the Russian loyalist government and gave a golden opportunity for Putin to exploit the anarchy that followed to his advantage. And he did just that. [quote/]
No doubt.
I'm trying to verify the story on American involvement with the coup. And I cant at the moment. Ill stop saying until I can verify the story.
Regardless America and NATO are still big bad villains in this situation. Remember they started this soon as the Berlin wall fell. The threat of these two cant be overstated.
The United States in the 1980s almost brought the world to terminal nuclear war while probing Russian defenses. This is a big deal! A very hostel dangerous country. Russia would have every reason to take them as a serious threat.
Your still forgetting that America is expecting Russia to act in a way that America wouldn't dream of acting.
Its a very good exercise to try and imagine America as normal country. Its very helpful experiment.
As for NATO. It was the agreement that they shouldn’t move a inch to the east. And that’s exactly what they have done. Americas and NATOs action since the end of the cold war is completely out of control. Says a lot about the cold wars doctrine. Cold war being about far more than basic communist threat and more about controlling the world. Particularly the 3rd world.
Remember America is committed to the principle that Russia should not have a sphere of influence despite Americas massive sphere its self.
I know its sounds like I'm desperate to pinpoint everything on USA, but Americas role should not be forgotten in the sea of hysteria and complete lack of context to the situation. America has been planting missiles right next to Russia's border for ages.
All of the worlds powers would of let out a huge sigh of relief when America embarked on there wars and policy's after 911. Its gave brutal regimes all over the world the go ahead to act completely out of international (So called) laws and norms. It really normalized the international banditry that we saw in the previous century.
I don't like Putin at all. A saying I have is "I don't like Putin because he behaves like America. But in his defense, he just acting like America".
Its NATOs existence that has helped caused this crisis.
[quote="dj";p="85335"]
As far as Obama "selling-out" when he took office by placing industry experts in cabinet / admin positions...that is another lie spread by leftist extremists. You can not place political partisans or others without experience in those positions. Just because they working in banking/financial business does not automatically make them crooks.
[quote="pvt_Grunt";p="85332"][quote="Antony_nz";p="85328"]
No. It doesn't automatically make them crooks. Problem is. He appointed a lot people who are complete crooks.
Look, I have been very quick to defend Obama. I would still defend him now. I'm aware that there would be massive constraints on the president. I know the Republicans have a unwritten rule to make the country ungovernable.
But it gets to the point when you have to wonder when things stop being forgivable. Look at the TPPA. The debate's over. This thing is bad news. And barely even a trade agreement. Shocking direction. Whys he doing it?
Dan Carlin actually touched up on the argument. He says: "Okay but not Okay, because these reforms need to get done. And the longer it goes on the harder it will be fix".
This is why Hillary having won is so depressing. And I really wish Bernie Sanders won. Such a shame...
These people appointed inside the Obama administrations shouldn't be glossed over with the title Industry experts. They are actually part of what in my opinion is a really fucked up ideology and behavior. They have made the list of culprits and it was a huge disappointment to people who wanted reform. I wouldn't be so quick to defend Obama on these appointments. Its worth moaning and getting angry about.
[quote="dj";p="85335"]
This is the long traditional routine in US Govt.
[quote="dj";p="85335"]
Fuck up. Complete fuck up.
[quote="dj";p="85335"]
The other thing is that CONGRESS makes the laws, not the President. Yes Obama could have placed left wing or industry outsiders in those positions, but that would have been criticized too by his opponents.[quote="dj";p="85335"]
Yea, your right about congress making laws. Its a big problem. I think that would be a good thing about this election. Isn't the congress going to take a reshuffle and this new administration is going to be backed by a democratic congress? You tell me, I'm not sure how it all works. I think I read somewhere that the republicans are going to lose there majority. Should be very helpful. The problem is, the democratic party has pushed so far to the neoliberal right that there own party and leaders may be a obstacle
Arguing that a serious reform period would of been criticized by is opponent's is .. well.. true, but still very frustrating and damaging. I know that Obama has been severely restricted. But its not easy just to stop the serious criticisms.
As for acting like the only alternatives to appointing these scums bags would be "Left wing radicals or industry outsiders". I cant really comment as I'm not there or familiar with every name and person. But I doubt its like that.
I highly recommend "Inside Job" documentary. Very well researched and presented. The problems it talks about are very big systemic issues.
Exactly.
Does the system need to be reformed? Reformed probably means more rules... more governance, I think most people agree we do not want more of this.
Its the people using the system that need reforming.
Yeah alot of people using the system need reforming or.. need to go. But i dont like the "More rules" aspect. I appologise if I grab what you said and move in a completely different direction but the more no rules mentality has been a problem is some aspects. The massive amounts deregulation in certain sectors have been a huge root cause of a lot of problems in my view. I think the small government advocates have just been using that as a excuse to continue on there agenda.
I didn't think the idea of not needing reform should be in question, as the system is so bad and has been for so long. It has a long habit of gravitating towards this path. Sorry to use such vague terms but I cant be bothered reiterating the problems your using the correct terminology to clearly describe what I think the problems are.
I think- reforming the people using the system- is itself a type of reform!
Presidents don't make laws. That is the role of Congress. Dan Carlin summed up it well in his latest podcast. It's due to Corruption. Our political system is extremely dependent on $ to win. So Congress only cares about getting re-elected and to not upset the donor class. Obama is suppose to regulate financial earnings or force Congress to change laws to make employee compensation more fair? When Republicans have no interest whatsoever in any deals with him. You can't pin the concentration of wealth on the President. It is a trend that has taken decades and I think is a consequence of Corporate Globalization. Companies will do anything to make a $...workers are just a commodity. That's the reality of the situation.
dj, consider this:
• Under Bill Clinton, 45% of all gains in personal income went to the top 1% of the country.
• Under George W. Bush, 65% of the gain in income went to the top 1%.
• And according to Emmanuel Saez, a top liberal economist from Berkley, under Barack Obama, 91% of the increase in earnings went to the top l%.
So how do you reason that the most liberal person to ever hold the Office of the Presidency also is responsible for the greatest earnings of the highest earners?
Great post.
These problems need to get dealt with. And soon.
Another classic quote - " How come these people that don't like Trump, pretty much always want to take off to Canada but not Mexico? They racist or something? ".
The maple syrup cartel up there is less likely to kidnap or kill you. Plus the lingua franca is almost pidgin English.
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016
Its the people using the system that need reforming.[/quote]
The very people you want to reform have corrupted the system and will fight against any reform to protect their interests and to stop future prosecution - bribes, " looking after friends " body bag list etc.
Its the people using the system that need reforming.
The very people you want to reform have corrupted the system and will fight against any reform to protect their interests and to stop future prosecution - bribes, " looking after friends " body bag list etc.[/quote]
To help prove that point - Key # DNC Leak 2 emails - Cozy with CNN, silencing journalists & pinning it on Putin.
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016
Brit Humes again works for the most Partisan news network in US. Brit Humes also issued an apology 2 days later on video saying he made a "mistake" that there are not indictments. And Rudy Giuliani had inside information leaked on Fox News 2 days before Comey sent the letter. Do you even know what the letter from the FBI said? I think not.
All Comey is doing is saying they found more emails.
The only thing that matters are the FACTS. You get it? You can keep pimping all these stories but don't amount to a hill of beans because it's all hearsay and Partisanship.[/quote]
Well it does look like Brit Humes and Fox Network were the more realistic and accurate media forums / commentators for these elections. So what does it make the others like CNN, CBS, ABC and also NYT and WAPO........................lol ( propaganda ). So far off the mark.
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016
On CNN last night it was so funny to watch John King who was so concerned about Trump that for hours on end he would bring up on screen the main battleground states of Wisconsin, Florida, etc., and he would show how Hillary's support in the major city strongholds was going to somehow change the direction in her favor. One of the personalities on CNN, I think it was Dana Bash, you could see the quiver in her voice when she had to announce how Trump was doing.
It was delicious to watch.
"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016
Idiots. Trump is the most ill-informed, dis-honest and un-ethical person to ever get elected. He is all lies. The establishment Republicans is firmly in control of Congress yet again. They will raise spending for more wars, give more tax cuts to the wealthy and add trillions more in debt. Nothing will change. Nothing will get reformed.
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:22 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016
[quote="dj";p="85362"]Idiots. Trump is the most ill-informed, dis-honest and unethical person to ever get elected. He is all lies. The establishment Republicans is firmly in control of Congress yet again. They will raise spending for more wars, give more tax cuts to the wealthy and add trillions more in debt. Nothing will change. Nothing will get reformed.[/quote
DJ come on. Your whole statement describes the Clinton's over the last 30 years. Even Hillary's advisors were saying she has no judgement. Then there is all of the investigations , some of which are still going - FBI into the Clinton Foundation. Trump was a Democrat for far longer than he has been a Repub. He is anti war if you decided to listen to his statements. The thirty years Hillary has been a politician the gap between the rich and poor has increased, the divide between ethnic tolerance hasn't changed. Obama a Noble Peace Prize winner when given the award had two conflicts in progress - today seven.
It might not change and won't unless Trump purges those Establishment politicians who opening did all they could to disrupt his run - Paul Ryan.
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:41 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016
I think the new rot will be information and education. Quality of media information is very poor. The ease of lies being spread via social media is too easy. I doubt anyone posting in this thread needs examples of it either. Comment bots, comment people, summarizing a complicated issue down to a single point, trolls...
I think the new rot will be information and education. Quality of media information is very poor. The ease of lies being spread via social media is too easy. I doubt anyone posting in this thread needs examples of it either. Comment bots, comment people, summarizing a complicated issue down to a single point, trolls...
Yes dead right. There have been many comments very wide of the mark. Like how Wikileaks emails come to nothing even though every leak published was and is true - nothing refuted or proved incorrect. They have also had a influence upon the election. The backing of what clearly is now a biased media that some were easily influenced and fooled. Current state of the media can surely only get better now that their bias have to laid open for all to see. I also agree about the use of social media in the election not to be under estimated. But I disagree that it was largely a negative one when most main stream media wasn't up to seeing Trump win let alone cover both sides of the election equally. Trolls............well people normally refer to others as trolls when they have nothing better to say or have found themselves to be incorrect and use the Clinton defense - deflect blame on others.
Maybe education for the masses will improve with the shrinking of defense / policing other countries and a commitment to building infrastructure - schools, hospitals etc domestically.
Looking forward to seeing what happens post election to the Clinton Foundation - maybe Haiti will see some cash to rebuild their infrastructure instead of weddings.
The rot / corruption is stopped and just needs removing now. A big and long task. Kennedy failed to remove it.[/quote]
I dont think Kennedy was as great as people think.
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:25 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016
I dont think Kennedy was as great as people think.[/quote]
I never said great. I think he was going to attempt to drain the swamp back then but was removed before he could start to. He was good for not continuing that fiasco " bay of pigs " round 2 though.
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:34 am Post subject: Re: US Elections 2016
Well, after a long brutal history of supporting practically Neo Nazi national security states, with it spreading to central America by the 1980s, in 2016, just like 911, the chickens have come home to roost. America has gotten the president they deserve.
Some of what trump says makes sense, but its going to be interesting to see if he will implement some of his more far out policy's. The tax cut is going to be brutal.Tax cuts seem to have a very obvious and direct way of fucking the country.
There are a lot of similarity's between this election and the election of Ronald Reagan.Turns out both candidates were wildly unpopular in the 1980 election. It was when some discussions began about the poor choices of candidates. And of course they were both trashy celebrity's.
Ronald Reagan was a very simple childish man. Not smart. Apparently his advisers were completely shocked when he took office about his lack of basic understanding of the world around him. Another similarity there.
In all honesty I hope he does a really terrible job and causes a lot of damage.It would be a shame if he just does a normal job as president and goes down in history as better than Reagan, or worst than Obama or what have you.
America could of been very good. Could of helped the world. But they have been the enemy of humanity for many decades now.
They have been a massive obstacle to peace,prosperity,democracy,equality and development.
Its a shame what he will do to global warming, but i hope he burns the country to ashes, and from those ashes will spawn and progressive spirit.
For argument sake lets just call him a fascist for a minute. Unfortunately America just likes fascism!
And we must be really quick to announce that America is a sick evil twisted nation. We must tell Americans this. Look them in the eye, say your country is sick and disgusting. And make sure you don't get any counter arguments like "Its just the government that's bad, the people are okay". OR, "Yeah but there are a lot of good things about America".
There are many, many reasons for why Trumps win. I wont try and cover it. But I just want to mention this. Americans love "Cool guys". The "Team America" films song "America fuck yea" is a pretty good indication of there mentality.
Americans have a very infantile minds.
Think about it.
Trump- bad ass cool guy
Obama- super cool
Bush- cool cowboy cool
Clinton - ridiculously cool
Bush Snr - NOT COOL!
Reagan - Cowboy cool
Carter - NOT COOL! (LOL charity)
Sorry to troll, many countries face the same problems as USA.
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