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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:38 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

I hope the war ends soon.  The longer it rages the more angry and desperate Putin will become.  Putin lied countless times him and Trump are like mafia brothers, no wonder they get along so well.  He said Ukraine never had a real country.  It has been sovereign nation legally by treaty when the Soviet Union ended 30 years ago.  He lied about calling Ukraine Nazi's with a Jewish President.  He lied about genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  He lied to his solidiers about why the assault on Ukraine.  I do feel sorry for Russian soldiers getting slaughtered not realizing what they were heading into.

I don't think Boris Yeltsin would approve of Putin's behavior.  Putin according to our sources has very small circle of trusted advisors whom worked with him in KGB.  Which makes perfect sense because Putin called the fall of the Soviet Union the greatest tragedy of 20th century...not WW1, not WW2 but the fall of ruthless regime that killed millions of its own people.  Putin certainly has modeled the new Russia as throwback to Soviet era and that's what this war is about.  Ukraine posed clear and present danger as liberal democracy on their doorstep after his puppet regime collapsed.
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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:56 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
I hope the war ends soon.  The longer it rages the more angry and desperate Putin will become.  Putin lied countless times him and Trump are like mafia brothers, no wonder they get along so well.  He said Ukraine never had a real country.  It has been sovereign nation legally by treaty when the Soviet Union ended 30 years ago.  He lied about calling Ukraine Nazi's with a Jewish President.  He lied about genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  He lied to his solidiers about why the assault on Ukraine.  I do feel sorry for Russian soldiers getting slaughtered not realizing what they were heading into.

I don't think Boris Yeltsin would approve of Putin's behavior.  Putin according to our sources has very small circle of trusted advisors whom worked with him in KGB.  Which makes perfect sense because Putin called the fall of the Soviet Union the greatest tragedy of 20th century...not WW1, not WW2 but the fall of ruthless regime that killed millions of its own people.  Putin certainly has modeled the new Russia as throwback to Soviet era and that's what this war is about.  Ukraine posed clear and present danger as liberal democracy on their doorstep after his puppet regime collapsed.


It's a pity if you sincerely believe in this set of stamps about Russia and its history. And Boris Yeltsin is perceived in Russia as a drunkard and half-wit, and such people are not respected in Russia.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 67.1


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:14 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar

You are wasting time. Right now there is no truth, all sides are pissing to eyes and ears, and due to ongoing cyberwar any source may be discredited and used in blatant propaganda. Only after months, or years we will be able to learn some truth, but even this prospects are questionable. In my expects, there will be immediate mythologization and denial of questions like 'What was before?' and 'How exactly it happen?'. In Russia there will be a pathetic speech of our president, in West there will be faery tales about Ukrainian Ponyland, where everybody just drink water and puked rainbows, when suddenly Russian orks attacks. Nobody around will note about inconsequences in Putin`s speech or that water was denied to Crimea and rainbows usually was in form of swastikas... Believe or STFU (or welcome to jail). May be folks somewhere in India will be able to study current evets  freely, but even they will probably will be faced with public outrage and maybe even death threats.
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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:30 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):
paratmar

You are wasting time. Right now there is no truth, all sides are pissing to eyes and ears, and due to ongoing cyberwar any source may be discredited and used in blatant propaganda. Only after months, or years we will be able to learn some truth, but even this prospects are questionable. In my expects, there will be immediate mythologization and denial of questions like 'What was before?' and 'How exactly it happen?'. In Russia there will be a pathetic speech of our president, in West there will be faery tales about Ukrainian Ponyland, where everybody just drink water and puked rainbows, when suddenly Russian orks attacks. Nobody around will note about inconsequences in Putin`s speech or that water was denied to Crimea and rainbows usually was in form of swastikas... Believe or STFU (or welcome to jail). May be folks somewhere in India will be able to study current evets  freely, but even they will probably will be faced with public outrage and maybe even death threats.


That is exactly what I said above. That's why I asked some members of the forum if they were propagandists, tk. very persistently impose their point of view). As they say in Russia: Spring will show who shitted where).
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Berger

Rep: 28
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:36 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Quote:
Participants in the pro-EU rally on Kyiv's Independence Square, or Maidan Nezalezhnosti, say they demand Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych not sign an agreement on Ukraine's accession to the Customs Union during his visit to Moscow on December 17.


https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/euromaidan-passes-an-anti-customs-union-resolution-333730.html
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Customs_Union
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mooxe

Rep: 211.3
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

War is bad guys. A country was invaded and the cities are under bombardment as we speak. The longer it goes on, more Ukrainian civilians will die, more war crimes will occur and Ukrainian cities will become flatter.


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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
War is bad guys. A country was invaded and the cities are under bombardment as we speak. The longer it goes on, more Ukrainian civilians will die, more war crimes will occur and Ukrainian cities will become flatter.


Amen
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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:36 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
I hope the war ends soon.  The longer it rages the more angry and desperate Putin will become.  Putin lied countless times him and Trump are like mafia brothers, no wonder they get along so well.  He said Ukraine never had a real country.  It has been sovereign nation legally by treaty when the Soviet Union ended 30 years ago.  He lied about calling Ukraine Nazi's with a Jewish President.  He lied about genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  He lied to his solidiers about why the assault on Ukraine.  I do feel sorry for Russian soldiers getting slaughtered not realizing what they were heading into.

I don't think Boris Yeltsin would approve of Putin's behavior.  Putin according to our sources has very small circle of trusted advisors whom worked with him in KGB.  Which makes perfect sense because Putin called the fall of the Soviet Union the greatest tragedy of 20th century...not WW1, not WW2 but the fall of ruthless regime that killed millions of its own people.  Putin certainly has modeled the new Russia as throwback to Soviet era and that's what this war is about.  Ukraine posed clear and present danger as liberal democracy on their doorstep after his puppet regime collapsed.


It's a pity if you sincerely believe in this set of stamps about Russia and its history. And Boris Yeltsin is perceived in Russia as a drunkard and half-wit, and such people are not respected in Russia.


Please help me understand what part of my comments about Russia or its history were incorrect?  Point being about Boris Yeltsin was that he was the father of the "new" Russia post Soviet Union and led the protests in after the Coup attempt against Mikhail Gorbachov.  I never said all Soviet leaders were bad, I found Gorbachov to be honorable man with integrity and tried to do the right thing.  But the Soviets did not like him and they did not want peace so tried Coup and it ultimately led to the end of the Soviet Union.  Russia never really did experience anything like a democracy.

In fact today I got translation from Russian state media to English and your comments about Ukrainian military using civilians as shields was word for word taken from Putin media.  Now today Putin closed the 2 last independent media networks left in Russia taken off air.  And moreover there is new law proposed to make it criminal with jail time to call the "operation" in Ukraine an invasion.  So it's really a pity Putin has made Russia into a Soviet style Police State.
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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:12 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
I hope the war ends soon.  The longer it rages the more angry and desperate Putin will become.  Putin lied countless times him and Trump are like mafia brothers, no wonder they get along so well.  He said Ukraine never had a real country.  It has been sovereign nation legally by treaty when the Soviet Union ended 30 years ago.  He lied about calling Ukraine Nazi's with a Jewish President.  He lied about genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  He lied to his solidiers about why the assault on Ukraine.  I do feel sorry for Russian soldiers getting slaughtered not realizing what they were heading into.

I don't think Boris Yeltsin would approve of Putin's behavior.  Putin according to our sources has very small circle of trusted advisors whom worked with him in KGB.  Which makes perfect sense because Putin called the fall of the Soviet Union the greatest tragedy of 20th century...not WW1, not WW2 but the fall of ruthless regime that killed millions of its own people.  Putin certainly has modeled the new Russia as throwback to Soviet era and that's what this war is about.  Ukraine posed clear and present danger as liberal democracy on their doorstep after his puppet regime collapsed.


It's a pity if you sincerely believe in this set of stamps about Russia and its history. And Boris Yeltsin is perceived in Russia as a drunkard and half-wit, and such people are not respected in Russia.


Please help me understand what part of my comments about Russia or its history were incorrect?  Point being about Boris Yeltsin was that he was the father of the "new" Russia post Soviet Union and led the protests in after the Coup attempt against Mikhail Gorbachov.  I never said all Soviet leaders were bad, I found Gorbachov to be honorable man with integrity and tried to do the right thing.  But the Soviets did not like him and they did not want peace so tried Coup and it ultimately led to the end of the Soviet Union.  Russia never really did experience anything like a democracy.

In fact today I got translation from Russian state media to English and your comments about Ukrainian military using civilians as shields was word for word taken from Putin media.  Now today Putin closed the 2 last independent media networks left in Russia taken off air.  And moreover there is new law proposed to make it criminal with jail time to call the "operation" in Ukraine an invasion.  So it's really a pity Putin has made Russia into a Soviet style Police State.


Yeltsin is a drunkard, Gorbachev is a coward, Putin is just a man, this is how most people in Russia perceive these persons. You have described historical events in Russia and Ukraine in an affirmative manner, although, as an intelligent and educated person, I think you understand that the official interpretation of history and real historical events have almost nothing in common. History is written by the winners. This is true for any country. Wars were, are and will be - this is the nature of man. Democracy according to Aristotle is the worst form of political regime. Just accept that it takes more time to change human nature. To do this, you can, for example, stop imposing your point of view on others. Stop speaking in a categorical manner. The world is not black and white, people are neither bad nor good. Everything has a huge number of shades at different times. To my deep regret - Homo homini lupus est.
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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:59 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

This is if anyone is interested in how the Ukrainian conflict is perceived in Russia. I'm not saying all of this is true or false. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. Who is not ready to find out an alternative opinion, do not look). https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oLjM6fSQ97vvI0xtZqSi9HibUHxuF91d/view#_=_
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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:21 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Let me try to help you out since Russia only has censorship...

- no human shields, rather Ukraine has formidable Partisan resistance army probably close to 1 million
- Russian media lied, many more than 500 Russians killed in combat many slaughtered lied to about special operation.  Russian POW's have reported they were not expecting combat did know where going.
- Russia is struggling to gain air superiority.  Supply convoys badly mauled by Ukrainian ground attack aircraft sorties.
- Many ethnic Russians whom speak Russian among civilian casualties
- Russian attack on largest Nuclear plant in Europe last night, shot flare started fire and shot 20mm at buildings.  This is illegal against international law even Russia signed treaty to ban attacks on Nuclear power plants.
-Ukraine scuttled its flagship frigate today due to repair issues?
-8000 Russians arrested in multiple anti-war protests in multiple cities.  
-Putin and his oligarchs moved their Yaughts out of port to evade seizures by Western nations before the invasion
-Cluster Bomb attacks on civilian urban targets another war crime
-Ukrainian cities look like Stalingrad battle field or Allepo
-Ukraine keeps asking for No-Fly zone.  USA and NATO keeps rejecting their requests.
-Prague, Frankfurt and other European cities had massive rallies to support Ukraine and watched Zelensky's speech tonight.  Prague had huge crowd probably 10k people to rally for Ukraine.
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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:26 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

correction: Russian POW's have reported they were not expecting combat did not know where going.
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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:05 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
Let me try to help you out since Russia only has censorship...

- no human shields, rather Ukraine has formidable Partisan resistance army probably close to 1 million
- Russian media lied, many more than 500 Russians killed in combat many slaughtered lied to about special operation.  Russian POW's have reported they were not expecting combat did know where going.
- Russia is struggling to gain air superiority.  Supply convoys badly mauled by Ukrainian ground attack aircraft sorties.
- Many ethnic Russians whom speak Russian among civilian casualties
- Russian attack on largest Nuclear plant in Europe last night, shot flare started fire and shot 20mm at buildings.  This is illegal against international law even Russia signed treaty to ban attacks on Nuclear power plants.
-Ukraine scuttled its flagship frigate today due to repair issues?
-8000 Russians arrested in multiple anti-war protests in multiple cities.  
-Putin and his oligarchs moved their Yaughts out of port to evade seizures by Western nations before the invasion
-Cluster Bomb attacks on civilian urban targets another war crime
-Ukrainian cities look like Stalingrad battle field or Allepo
-Ukraine keeps asking for No-Fly zone.  USA and NATO keeps rejecting their requests.
-Prague, Frankfurt and other European cities had massive rallies to support Ukraine and watched Zelensky's speech tonight.  Prague had huge crowd probably 10k people to rally for Ukraine.


Thank you for your help). Let me help you too, since you apparently judge censorship in Russia based on what is in your country)) .... I already wrote above, I have the Internet, I don’t watch TV and I don’t advise you too, especially news). I have seen all the videos and other "evidence" from both sides of the conflict.
The name of the country - Ukraine is translated from Russian literally as at the edge, borderland. The fate of the marginals (from the Latin margo - edge, outskirts, ukraine) has always been predetermined - they are the subject of controversy, struggle and opportunism. Therefore, those who live there are forced to adapt and maneuver, cunning, dodging, otherwise they will not survive. So - "Being determines Consciousness".
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mooxe

Rep: 211.3
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Didn't take long for Russia to use the tried and true method of just destroying cities.

Maybe the Russian tactic is to obliterate cities to force the Ukraine into submission, rather than winning the ground war?


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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
Didn't take long for Russia to use the tried and true method of just destroying cities.

Maybe the Russian tactic is to obliterate cities to force the Ukraine into submission, rather than winning the ground war?

Your question is formulated as a ready answer). First of all, IMHO, you need to ask the question "Who benefits?" Is Russia declaring everywhere that the Russians and the inhabitants of Ukraine are one nation. Are them beneficial to destroy their own? The video of the destruction speaks only of the use of modern means of war by both sides. Can your see from it which side uses them thoughtlessly and not wisely? I am not saying that one of the sides is white and fluffy, and the other is not. I'm wondering why your're so sure. Maybe you have additional sources throughout Ukraine in addition to the media and open sources? I just want to know how you evaluate the information, and not to refute or convince you of something. Thanks in advance for your reply)
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 67.1


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

PHP:
no human shieldsrather Ukraine has formidable Partisan resistance army probably close to 1 million   

Thats not true, and Partisan army (territorial defense) mostly active in Ukrainian-held cities, like Kiyv, Kharkov and Mariupol, terrorizing local population. Police nearly disappeared, army is sitting in trenches on outer defense lines, there are no more law and order other that this paramilitary battalions. Enough videos of artillery's pieces near multi-store houses, even spotters acts from inside flats.

Quote:
- Russian media lied, many more than 500 Russians killed in combat many slaughtered lied to about special operation.

Losses already confirmed by ministry of defense.

Quote:
- Russian attack on largest Nuclear plant in Europe last night, shot flare started fire and shot 20mm at buildings.  This is illegal against international law even Russia signed treaty to ban attacks on Nuclear power plants.

There was an agreement of transfer of control over station with local Ukrainian forces. But then a third side fired from small arm to russian forces. ?ui prodest?

Quote:
-Ukraine scuttled its flagship frigate today due to repair issues?

She was on repair in Mikolaev. Crew scuttled her in first day of war.

Quote:
-Putin and his oligarchs moved their Yaughts out of port to evade seizures by Western nations before the invasion

Putin`s yachts are part of Russian Navy, officially. France and Spain already arrested several yachts. One yacht (owned to head of Russian 'Rostekh' state corporation) was scuttled by Ukrainian captain in Cadis, Spain - https://www.dialog.ua/world/247198_1645994971

Quote:
-Cluster Bomb attacks on civilian urban targets another war crime

Like with vacuum bombs, that just claims for now, no confirmations: https://time.com/6153295/russia-ukraine-war-crimes/

Quote:
-Ukrainian cities look like Stalingrad battle field or Allepo

Exaggeration. South of Kharkov was really hurt in first days of battle. Several civilian buildings was stricken in Kiyv. But nothing near like Stalingrad.
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mooxe

Rep: 211.3
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Didn't take long for Russia to use the tried and true method of just destroying cities.

Maybe the Russian tactic is to obliterate cities to force the Ukraine into submission, rather than winning the ground war?

Your question is formulated as a ready answer). First of all, IMHO, you need to ask the question "Who benefits?" Is Russia declaring everywhere that the Russians and the inhabitants of Ukraine are one nation. Are them beneficial to destroy their own? The video of the destruction speaks only of the use of modern means of war by both sides. Can your see from it which side uses them thoughtlessly and not wisely? I am not saying that one of the sides is white and fluffy, and the other is not. I'm wondering why your're so sure. Maybe you have additional sources throughout Ukraine in addition to the media and open sources? I just want to know how you evaluate the information, and not to refute or convince you of something. Thanks in advance for your reply)


Russia benefits. Either they pound Ukraine into submission or win the ground war. Source: History of Grozny & grad bombardment videos.

Russia can choose to stop at any time. The defenders have no choice.


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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

1.3M refugees now latest estimates fleeing to mostly Poland.  International Red Cross helping Romania they have issues trying to deal with issues.  Putin's luxury navy:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/putin-russia-yacht-sanctions/

And yes many many videos of sieges, missile strikes, artillery, bombings of Ukrainian cities. Also Russian forces appear to be having re-supply issues as they enter Ukraine. Ukrainian Partisan forces are highly motivated, high morale.  Yellow band is the Partisan home defense army. Reguar Ukrainian army seems to be held in reserve.  Russian having difficulty advancing in the North but 16 miles from Kiev as of today. Something is wrong with the large convoy stuck en route to Kiev... believed to running out of fuel and food for troops.  Partisan forces are formidable, Russian infantry taking heavy losses advancing.

Chechen special forces sent to kill Zelensky were repelled and defeated.
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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Didn't take long for Russia to use the tried and true method of just destroying cities.

Maybe the Russian tactic is to obliterate cities to force the Ukraine into submission, rather than winning the ground war?

Your question is formulated as a ready answer). First of all, IMHO, you need to ask the question "Who benefits?" Is Russia declaring everywhere that the Russians and the inhabitants of Ukraine are one nation. Are them beneficial to destroy their own? The video of the destruction speaks only of the use of modern means of war by both sides. Can your see from it which side uses them thoughtlessly and not wisely? I am not saying that one of the sides is white and fluffy, and the other is not. I'm wondering why your're so sure. Maybe you have additional sources throughout Ukraine in addition to the media and open sources? I just want to know how you evaluate the information, and not to refute or convince you of something. Thanks in advance for your reply)


Russia benefits. Either they pound Ukraine into submission or win the ground war. Source: History of Grozny & grad bombardment videos.

Russia can choose to stop at any time. The defenders have no choice.


So you mean that if Scotland decides to secede from England and ask for protection from Russia, then the British, having failed to suppress their resistance with a ground operation, may decide to destroy their cities in order to force them into submission? Even despite many years of joint glorious history, one culture and multiple family ties?
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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
1.3M refugees now latest estimates fleeing to mostly Poland.  International Red Cross helping Romania they have issues trying to deal with issues.  Putin's luxury navy:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/putin-russia-yacht-sanctions/

And yes many many videos of sieges, missile strikes, artillery, bombings of Ukrainian cities. Also Russian forces appear to be having re-supply issues as they enter Ukraine. Ukrainian Partisan forces are highly motivated, high morale.  Yellow band is the Partisan home defense army. Reguar Ukrainian army seems to be held in reserve.  Russian having difficulty advancing in the North but 16 miles from Kiev as of today. Something is wrong with the large convoy stuck en route to Kiev... believed to running out of fuel and food for troops.  Partisan forces are formidable, Russian infantry taking heavy losses advancing.

Chechen special forces sent to kill Zelensky were repelled and defeated.

Another one-sided coverage of events in an affirmative manner of presentation. I offer an example of a real Close Combat without a value judgment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1dXAs2ybIU&ab_channel=WarLeaks-MilitaryBlog
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