[stratweg]

EDIT : Download link to get the quick guide is in last posts of the thread
Or here :
https://www.mediafire.com/file/o8ggp4xzihqfoh3/RESIZING_GUIDE_CC_MAP_V2.pdf/file
 (Mediafire link because the guide is > 2 Mo, limit for uploaded filces in CC Series - Do not care for the pub, it's usual on Mediafire)
Please, verify if there is not a new download link at end of thread (in case of futur update)

NOTE : The thread began with Mafi CC2 Tools, but with help of Schnellemeyer, I made finally the guide based on Mafi 5cc tool, that is a more complete tool to work with
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I am learning to use the MAFI TOOL to resize maps

Objective : To try to resize some cool maps I founded in other CC opus than ccmt, but that are not square maps.

At this time, I just want to learn how to resize maps with this tool (and nothing more). I know that just resize  will not convert elements of map but now, the learning is just to resize maps.

Here is the process I followed. Like my beginning with databook, progress are (very )  laborious and my process failed, but I expose it in details to ask for some help

I used the instructions that are in the txt named “how to convert on PC”, because the pdf manuel does not give lot of details about resizing detail process

I choiced the map to be worked for my attempt :  BSIEMENS map, that is in RedStormRising mod (RSR), a mod for CC5

Attached to this post are :
- The data txt file of the concerned map and modified files I obtenaid with the tool
- This post in Adobe Pdf format with all images of windows I obtenaid

This map is a 90 x 66 map and I want to resize it as a square of 66 x 66 to be able to use it in CCMT (that works only with square maps)

At –First, I lunch CC2 Tool and I obtained this windows

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules/Forums/files/a_593.jpg
See please the attached file IMAGE A



B - I choiced Map convert shrink and I obtained  this windows
See please the attached IMAGE B


C – As it is said in the help txt file, I choiced the conversion table (that is in “translation tables” directory of the tool.

For imput file format, I choiced “CC5toCCMT” table (RSR is a CC5 mod)

For output file format, I choices CC3/CC4/CC5/CCM/RTB   (because RSR is a mod for CCE and CCMT is the “successor” of CCM)

Then I choiced  in “select file” the BSIEMENS.txt file (data file of the concerned map)


And I received this windows :
See please the attached image C



D/ Then I modified the values to have identical values (for a square map)
I set horizontal on 66 (old value was 90) and I obtained this windows :
See please the attached file image D



E/ Then, I clicked on the “Shrink” button (I did not any other action, because I just wanted to resize the map)

and I obtained a txt file named  BSiemens-22x22
I renamed this file in “Bsiemens” and replaced the original file by this modified file


F/ Then I lunch CCMT editor abd loaded the Bsiemens map, that had this look :
See please the attached file Image F  


G/ And when I clicked on “next” in CCMT to begin to build a scenario with the map, I obtained this error message :
See please the attached file image G



I did probably (no : certainly  ) something wrong, but where ?

[ScnelleMeyer]

I prefer to use 5CC for expanding/subtracting or recoding maps. For RSR-maps you should not need to recode anything as the CC5 elements are a sub-set of the CCMT elements table.
Also why do you want to cut parts of the map? -Isnt it better to keep as much of the map as possible and rather add to it to make it square? - I think so.

1. Load the CC5 map in 5CC
2. go to Actions menu and DATA actions
3. pick Expand/Shrink
4. Add 48 elements to the bottom and top of the map.
5. Use the BGM-colour based terrain flood fill too and code the "new" expanded areas as out of bounds (element 323)
6. go to file - select: Generate LOS.
7. Save the map by going Save As and save it with your prefered name.
8. Play the map in CCMT

[stratweg]

Ok, thanks

STEP 1 to 3 = ok. By “LOAD”, what do you means exactly  ? To load only the txt or to import in addition after that all files (OMV,MMM,BGM, etc) : there are lot if buttons and choice is not clear at all
I tried to load only the txt but at the end I get not all the files
In the doubt, I load the txt first, and after I import all other files (OVM, BGM, etc) with the import command
At the beginning, it’s better to have explanation step by step : to interpret buttons in a foreign language is not so evident

STEP 4 : More informations needed, please : why 48 ? I would have generic information= is it always needed to add 48 to have a 90x90 maps ?
Or does it depends of the coordinates of original map. In this last case, why 48 ? Because it is the double of 24 ? (90-66=24) ? For another (unknow of me) reason ? There is something I would like to understand in generic way to have a general understanding of the process, to be able to reproduce it with other maps
Logically,  if I add 48 at the top and 48 at the button, it means I add 96 to 66 (vertical coordinates of the original map )= 162. But if I verify the new map, the txt indicates 90 90. How is it possible ?
And if the original 66 are not counted, it means that I set the map + 48 at top and + 48 at bottom = 96. How is it possible to have then a 90 x 90 map ?
What is the logical reason to enter 48 : 1/ For this map ? 2/ For all maps ?

STEP 5 : Where is the correct button to do that (BGM color), please : there are a lot, and without not intuitive sense for me :  is it TERRAIN ? TERRAIN AUTO MODE ? BGM actions ? etc  Nothing seems intuitive in this program when you begin.  And in addition, pb of foreign language…

I saw that in terrain autocode, I can use the 3 bars level with your 323 code = ok
I suppose it is what you means by “using code 323”. But by example, it would have been more clear to say : in TERAIN AUTO CODE, use the 3 level barres to have 323 code

And after “coding “, please ? What options have to be choiced ? There are lot of options and checked box in the windows : what boxes must be stay checked or un checked ? Each time I do a false test, I have to reload again the program and it needs lot of time : all have to be restart from the first beginning. Better would be to have a more clear informations step by step about the process to have a clear idea on how it works : I don’t know anything about this program

STEP 6 : When I go to "FILES" and I click on GENERATE LOS, the progamme says :"NOT ELEMENT TERRAIN FILES LOADED, GENERALE LOS IMPOSSIBLE = Some step seems to miss. How to do load ELEMENT TERRAINS FILES ?

If you have no time to give detailed process,  ok : no pb with that, I understand and I will  not try to resize maps, and that’s all

But if you want to help, please : give me the clear process, because the program has a great number of buttons and their sense is absolutely no clear at all (and in addition, in English language). I suppose that a english moder would have same difficulties as I have if he would want to mod a game in french language with a tool wrtitten in french. Impossible mission for him, I think : the 2 language have too different semantic logic.

And it is a know world information that lot of frenchies (I am unfortunatly one of them  have great heavy difficulties with this damned English language (I never learned that in school and the only english knowledge I have were get on wargame forums during my wargamer carreers (by imitation/reproducing words and terms + a little book (initiation for english grammary and vocab) I bought myself

Damned crazy language !   We should have invaded this country in Napoleonic times to set french obligatory  

EDIT : Concerning that :
Also why do you want to cut parts of the map? -Isnt it better to keep as much of the map as possible and rather add to it to make it square? - I think so.

You are entirely right, but I did not know it was possible to do that sort of thing : I though it was necessary to sacrify  a part of highest coordinates

EDIT : I finally founded the victory objectives (unzoom map) I searched : Localization of files is here
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=94673#94673

[ScnelleMeyer]

I understand the need for more instructions on this topic as there is a language barrier and the programme has a lot of functions and much is not easy to understand, even though there is a manual.
I shall try to make a video as it is quite hard to explain it all in text clearly.

[stratweg]

Ok, thanks a lot for help

But in my opinion, to do a video will be a heavy process and will need for you lot of work : I think that a simple text with exact/detailed/complete process 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc (detailed step by step) would be the good solution. And if I have any doubt about a special case, I ask to you : your explanations helped  me very great to understand the mechanism of the data book, and your complementary  text explanations  in each detailled case were more largely and directly usefull than a video could have been.


And in addition : a text is more usefull, because I may use deep L or google translate in case of difficulties for interpretation. To translate a video is impossible and may be source of confusion)

Text seems more better solution for all things, in my opinion : it will better help than a video (more efficient) . And have I to say ? My age generation is not very video amazing for understand things, text is for old wargamers more better...

[ScnelleMeyer]

[stratweg]

Ok, thanks  a lot for these precisions .

Now it's more clear for STEP 1 to 3
(but loading just the txt file gives me at the end of process less files than 5 : I will see that later, perhaps process is not complete at this time due to my lack of knowledges)

And in addition, at start I receive (when I load the txt of the map) a message concerning ROF definition Error named Groof2 error, that ask to me to rectify the error automatically by clicking on a button named "compensate Groof2 error" : I suppose I have to accept to rectify this Groof2 error, it seems logical : if program ask me to do that, there is a good reason I suppose.

Concerning the resizing (step 3) : You say that : This is explained in the manual for 5CC, but in short: each map consists of Deployment tiles of 120x120 pixels, these are divided into 40x40 pixel elevation tiles, and then again into Terrain tiles of 10x10 pixels.
5CC informs you in the "data action" meny about how many deployment tiles the loaded map is. For BSiemens map its 30 x 22. This means Its missing 8 Deployment tiles on the short side to become square. 8 deployment tiles x120 = 960 pixels. In the data action menu you set the number of terrain tiles, so 960/10 = 96.  And to make the map look centered we divide this by 2 so we get 48 terrain tiles on top and 48 on the bottom.


In DATA ACTION screen, I searched in all menus, and 55CC gives no any informations about  that, I did not seen that in this windoxs (CC2 TOOL do that and it's very usefull : it gives the coordinates of concerned map + the number  of deployment tiles, but 5CC does not in the date action windows)

Perhaps is it usefull to consult CC2TOL before to proceed with 5CC

I deduct that the most important information provided by the program (TOOL CC2 in this case, usefull to consult before use 5CC) is the number of deployment tiles for each side of map.

With this number, I may re-calculate like that :
If “x” is the number of missing deployment tiles in the short side to have a square map (in my map x= 8 ), I must calculate pixels map as this : x * 120 = “120x” pixels.
Then, in the data action menu, I must calculate the number of terrain tiles like this : 120x /10 = “y”
And then, to make the map look centered, I must divide  “y” by 2 : so I must add “Y/2” (Y*0,5) on top and same on the bottom.

If I did not false interpretation of what you explain, it’s ok and logical, it have sense now. But I have to say that your short text explanation is more directly better usefull than the numerous pages of the manuel, that are not very pedagogics : It’s a little mess => lot of informations in  some disorder and details to edit maps, details for editing that are not usefull to me at this step : I will just simply resize maps and nothing else : if after resizing a map I see it does not work correctly with terrains, etc, I will not use it and it’s all, I will not try to modify it)

For the rest, I think some screen capture of step by step  windows with boxes correctly checked or unchecked would be more usefull  than a video : even if you do a video, you can’t not explain all and there will be also questions : it’s better to have text to copy-past in post to give questions, it has more precision. Thanks again, it saves lot of time for me because I am not expert in informatique, pixels, etc    

EDIT : Please, one question  : Why not explain all things about resizing maps with CC2TOOL, that seems a more simple tool to use for what I want to do : just simply resize maps and nothing else (I will only resize "no-square maps" of CC opus that works with CCMT without any recoding/editing work and that are not square maps : I will not learn to edit in détails CC maps : too fastidious for the result, because lot of maps works correctly with CCMT (RTb MAPS, CC5 MAPS, etc

In addition; a important question  for me (it will save time for me when searching all no square maps) :

RTB maps and CC5 maps seems automatically work perfect with CCMT without recoding/editing
Is it the same for other opus ?

TLD ?
GTC, PITS, LSA = I think not (probably)
OTHERS ?

In addition, I tested the speed= 0 for my CH 47 CHinook helico and it works fine : AI OPFOR seems find high interest to find this unit and to destroy it   : it will allow very interessant and challenging scenarios in CCMT : you place a UN convoy at a corner of map, with this mission : reach the CH 47 helico on other corner. But between the 2 corner, UPFOR is determined to fight and destroy... And you have absolutly to pass to reach the helico before his destuction : a vital and hard race to evacuate wounded civilians in the UN convoy...

[stratweg]

As conclusion about the calculation of new coordinates to be entered for the resize of a map, we have this short formula (if I am right) :

VERTICAL RESIZING

The number  “z” to be entered (at bottom and at top of the map) for new “coordinates” of map  is given by this general formula :  z =  x * 120 (constant value) *O,10 (constant value)  *0,5 (constant value)

Or more shorter and practical formula : z = x * 6

Where “x” = difference between high side and low side in terms of “tiles deployment” (numbers given by CC2Tool)

In my example of map (Bsiemens, founded in RSR mod with 90,66 initial coordinates), the tools indicates me 30,22 deployment tiles = there is à difference of 8 between low and high side

So,  x = 8
and z = 8 * 120 * 0,10 * 0,5 = 48
Or shorter : 8 * 6 = 48 is the number to add in tool at top and bottom of the map to get a square map playable in CCMT

HORIZONTAL RESIZING :
Exactly same process, but with adding at right and left (in place of adding at top and bottom)

Thanks for these synthetic information and following others resizing informations : very interessant and usefull to mod easely CCMT and have more playable maps

[ScnelleMeyer]

Her is the video - I just uploaded it so it will be a few minutes before its in full HD: https://youtu.be/uklVLwKmRpA

[ScnelleMeyer]

"EDIT : Please, one question  : Why not explain all things about resizing maps with CC2TOOL, that seems a more simple tool to use for what I want to do : just simply resize maps and nothing else (I will only resize "no-square maps" of CC opus that works with CCMT without any recoding/editing work and that are not square maps : I will not learn to edit in détails CC maps : too fastidious for the result, because lot of maps works correctly with CCMT (RTb MAPS, CC5 MAPS, etc"

Because if you are not going to cut maps to make them square, but add to them - you need to bring the map into 5CC to code the newly added areas anyways. But hey, its completly up to you what tool you want to use.

[ScnelleMeyer]

"RTB maps and CC5 maps seems automatically work perfect with CCMT without recoding/editing
Is it the same for other opus ?

TLD ?
GTC, PITS, LSA = I think not (probably)
OTHERS ?"


Its the elements data file that decides this. If the elements file is the same as CCMT or a shorter version of the CCMT elements.txt, but with the same order of the elements within the list - Like the CC5 elements are - Then the map doesnt need recoding.
For most other games than CC5 and maybe RtB - like you say, and for most mods the elements files have been changed. But its very quick work to also convert a map using 5CC and one of the conversion tables that are included, or the user can make his own table.

[stratweg]

Ok, thanks.

You say : its very quick work to also convert a map using 5CC

My goal is that these word become reality, that is not the case at this time : CC5 has lot of buttons and things are not very explained in manuel in pedagogic orientation for beginners.

It's work of "geek" but not pedagogic work

Take example for the simply formula I posted above : No necessary to write 100 pages about that in a manuel, your short explanations here on the forum conducted immediatly me to have a clear vision of the formula coordinates to use to resize map : You have just to enter  z =x * 6 (x= difference of tiles deployement given by tools ; z = new coordinates of the map to be entered in tools)

If we could do same in this thread for all steps of process, I think it would be usefull : at the end, I could do a synthetic dossier in Pdf format, axed on immediatly practibility without having to read 100 pages

In this objective, I think short and precise explanations here, with some scrrens windows for step will be more usefull than a video  :wink:

EDIT: I did not see the video link = I will to see that, thanks  

[stratweg]

I am in the video and I try to follow.

I do not understand any word : it's more difficult than with text, nothing is for me understanding  

I try to follow with images but it seems we have not the same screens
When I click on SHOW TABLE ELEMENTS, I obtain that (see please attached image) an,d not what is showed by your video : There are not green buttons like you, juste number that are unclear. And I have not the 323 button, the limit is for me 255 as yopu can see on my screen capture

Or due to the not understanding words, I may have missed some setting that is needed, but not explained or showed in your video

It will more difficult in video than here in explanations here with some screens step by step, I think   It's difficulte to reead english, but I can try to translate ; in video, impossible to translate a voice, I understand no any word you say, sorry.

And in addition, as you seen in attached image, we have not the same screens in tool :no any word understanded, no same screens, etc :  impossible to learn something correctly in this video way.

Thanks but it has no sense to continue with video : this video way generate evry step new questions because we have no same screens, and at the end the result is exactly the same as if there was no video because all explanations are given here in text (screen captures + short and synthétic explanations would be more usefull)

[ScnelleMeyer]

Sorry, but I have no time to explain everything about this program or about map modding. I suggest you do like all other modders before you have had to do:
1. Read and try to understand the manual.
2. Use trial and error to figure out most things by yourself.

Wish you best of luck.

PS: did you load a terrain element file by pressing the top button in the toolbar?

[stratweg]

As you said here, and showed in video, I just loaded the data file (txt) of the map

Thanks for video attempt and help but I can not learn in some days in a foreign language video where I understand no any word and with no same screens or missing steps, it will take months for nothing, simple short explanation here would have made the job like it was made for databook.

Better is for me to just play CCMT with the numerous square maps I already collected.

[ScnelleMeyer]

I am not talking about the datafile of the map itself. You need to also load the ELEMENTS file for CC5.

[stratweg]

This precision seems important, effectivly. But I have no any logic indications about step : before to lunch the map data txt ? After ? And each time I try to import or load the concerned file (translation table CC5 to CCMT) I receive a error message that say to me this file imput is not a valid file.

Thanks again for video and help, it was great help for databook. But I think maping work needs too more time in regard of interest of the results : there are already lot of squared map that are playable with CCMT, to try to resize other new maps using complex tools with a manuel written for specialists geeks + buttons and process in a foreign language + help based on a video in foreign language that I can not understand for any word was for me a bridge too far   : impossible mission  

It would have been usefull to have explanations steps, because after understanding, I would have build a synthetic doc in adobe Pdf to describe in very high details step by step with images, and I would have shared if to allow alls users to quick and easely process. At this time, I read very oft on the forum : "maping work is easy with Mafi tools". Ok, cool words. But in fact, I do not see lot of users who do really the work  

And in my opinion, the reason is that there is no any  clear explanation document for beginners (manuel of 5CC is more geek work made without any pedagogic approach  by a specialist for other specialists : for this reason, the number of modders in CC will become more and more low in futur times  in place of growing).

The little formula I posted (z= x * 120 * 0,10 * 0,5), based about your clear and short explanations is also clear and simple to understand and to apply. That is what beginners need, something that works without to read 100 pages : If the programme  tool (CC2 Tool or 5CC tool) indicates you that the deployement tiles are 30 x 22 for map, 8 (z) are missing on the low side to create a square map and you have to add in tool expand z * 6 coordinates  at top and bottom of the map.

This explanation costs only  some words, and the beginners apply that and see : ok, it works ! So, he has after motivation to learn more.

For a specialist, all things are evident, but never for a beginner.

In any case, thanks again for help in datebook, I learned lot of things here  

[ScnelleMeyer]

[ScnelleMeyer]

This is where you load it from within 5CC

[stratweg]

Ok, thanks for complementary infos

Without precisions about the moment to load ELEMENTS TABLE (before LOADING MAP TXT DATA or after ? Before expand or after ? What are the orders of  steps to respect to work ? Here, there are 3 possibilities of cases : before the map, after the map but before expand, after expand the map)

I choiced to load first these elements in PREFERENCES screen and then I load the map and expand it (it seems logical to set preference for action before to do the action)

What I obtain is now a little bit near of your screen in vidéo and green bars appear

But I noticed that you have more green bars than me to the right of windows : I have 16 and you have I think 18 (I counted 18 but they are not good visible on your video, I cannot read the names in each green bar)

Anw when I open the Second green bar  (named "ground") like you, I do not obtain the same slots than you. In particular,  my list ends at 158 and yours goes to higher I supose (it is more long than mine)

I use 5CC V 1.22, downloaded on CC Series

An my setting are same than yours for visibility of elements

Here is I think the damned bad work of a third partner : an informatic Devil that does not want to see new resizers CC map in the human world