Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: Diameters of 17pdr and 6pdr shells
I am not familiar with the british ammunition standards, so could someone answer my question, what is the diameter of a 17pdr and a 6pdr shell? Also M10 has two versions, there is the M10 17pdr and M10 Royal artillery with 3 inch gun.
Which one is better? Also in the original CC5 there was the "wolverine". Is M10 also called wolverine or is wolverine something different?
The M10, Wolverine and the M10 Royal Artillery are basically the same vehicle, a self propelled anti tank gun armed with the US M7 3inch AA gun.
Some M10's in British service were upgunned with the 17pdr these were known as Achilles, as opposed to the 3inch armed M10 which were called Wolverine.
Generally vehicles in British service were known by name rather than number, but I don't know if this is true for other services that used the same vehicles.
I believe the 17pdr was considered the better tank 'killer'.
Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: LOL
french -surrender-monkeys,
priceless!
its not just the diameter ,but the velocity to take into account.
the 17lb had a higher muzzle velocity. like saying the mk4L24 and panther L71, both same diameter, but drastically different speeds.
same tiger 1 and tiger 2, same 88mm, but L54 to L70,big difference.
also ammunition plays a part.
AP and SP,sp has greater penetration, but not good on infantry,also more expensive, and i think more wear on the barrell,greater pressure.
i would always take a 17lb over a 75/76mm(later war 76mm was close, if not the same as 17lb speed,not to sure) but in ccv, the 17lb is always better. as a ATG or in the achilles, firefly, id take them anyday over M10,sherman 76(except a jumbo elite cciv style) only thing yanks had better was 90mm jackson M39, pershing M26.
My best guess is that the M10 3inch and the M10 17pdr are the same.
not really.
3inch M5/M7 was made on base of 3inch AA gun. 76mm L/50.
17pdr was specially designed AT gun. 76mm L/55.
Although both were 76mm, they had diferent ballistics, shell weight and muzzle velocity.
Quote:
17pdr is only thing the allies had to deal with panthers and tigers and i thought the French-surrender-monkeys made the earlier verison of the M10.
no, it was US design:).
When M10 received 17pdr it received M10C designation.
AFAIK Achilles is post-WW2 name.
Quote:
later war 76mm was close, if not the same as 17lb speed,not to sure
They all receive HVAP(3inch/76mm) and APDS(17pdr) pretty same time - August 1944. But again APDS had highers speed than HVAP.
What I can understand is that the M7 gun is a modified version of the M5, which is the AT version of the M1917 AA gun. I have only found one type of AP ammunition used, APC (Armour Piercing Capped). However at 1000 yards the gun penetrated 4 inch (100mm) of armour with the APC shot. The brittish 17pdr penetrated 118mm with the same munition, same dist.
The 17pdr also fired the APDS (Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot), the shot is a sub-calibre projectile which gives many advantages such as a more "flat" trajectory that makes it easier to aim. The armour penetration value for this munition is 231mm at the same distance. It's a kinetic penetrator which means that the shot is solid and no explosive is carried in the projectile. The muzzle velocity with the APDS munition was 1200 m/s.
The muzzle velocity for the M7 gun was 800 m/s with the APC shot.
The small difference between the 17pdr and the M7 with the APC shot indicates a much lower m.v. for the 17pdr using the APC shot than with the APDS shot. Not sure about that though. Maybe someone have good data on both guns and different munitions used?
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: mmm
here is a british 17pdr and 6 pdr APDS shells
diametres at bottom of pictures.
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
Just to throw a spanner into the works for the more pedantic members of our community the M10 3inch gun was infact 2.99inchs in diameter or 76mm. While the 50cal's diameter is 12.7mm
The british .303 bren gun barrel diameterwas 7.7mm and the besa diameter was 7.92mm or .312inchs.........Piper
17pdr is only thing the allies had to deal with panthers and tigers
there was...
the heavier arty guns,
gammon bombs etc,
piat,
bazooka,
mud,
you forgot about all the russian tanks,
rockets (eg the hawker typhoon's 60lb rockets),
armour piercing aircraft guns (eg the cannons on Il2M-3),
mines,
anti tank ditches, tank traps,
airstrikes on their factorys,
many many other weapons, and last but not least,
true courage and fighting spirit.
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