Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: Australian VC medal sells for 1.2 million dollars
at auction becoming a new record price for a service medal paid anywhere in the world.
VC is Victoria Cross for those who are not commonwealth countries.
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
The good news is that it was bought by a TV station owner/millionaire who immediately gave it to the War Museum for permanent display! He was on the news and said "I dont believe any one can buy or own another man's valour"
Well said, a good out come from what I thought would be a bad story.
Its nice that such a person bought this medal but what a shame that no-one looks after the people or families that win them, we the modern society owe them so much they gave their lives freely for us to live ours and in return we ignore them at best! the world is an upside down place at times.
the good news is the medal was sold by his grandson so his kids had a future, its a shame they had to sell it , but at least his great grand children benifit from his deeds,
Nice to see this medal in its rightful home, but I do agree with Piper that its a pity that heros such as these men and their families were so poorly treated in their lifetime.
Its seems true of all nations, and all wars, that as soon as the guns stop the heros are soon forgotten by the politicos, who generally were the cause of the problem in the first place.
its a pity that heros such as these men and their families were so poorly treated in their lifetime.
Not totally true. Like most Gallipoli medals, the VC was awarded to AJ Shout posthumously, so it doesnt apply to him. As for the family, Australia used to have a good tradition of helping veterans and their families -
"In August 1916 the Returned Soldiers’ Association launched a fund-raising appeal to purchase a home for her and her 11 year-old daughter; housing assistance was also offered by the New South Wales government. In November 1915 a memorial plaque commemorating Shout was unveiled at Darlington Town Hall by the governor-general, Sir Ronald Munro Ferguson [q.v.10]. It is now displayed at Victoria Barracks Museum, Paddington. "
The medal was sold by his grandson, 67-year-old Graham Thomas. While I dont begrudge him his windfall, he was hardly homeless and hungry. He has lived a full life and simply wishes to leave some money for his children and grandchildren, fair enough.
I wish he had made it a condition of sale that the medal be donated to the museum, instead of leaving people worried that it could go overseas or into a private collection. He might have made a little less money, but its all free to him anyway.
Sorry to sound harsh on a sick old man, thats not my intention.
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: mmmm
yer i know where Grunt is coming from.
it genuinely put a smile on my face to know it was staying in Australia.
but by same token,as it is nice to have all the medals from gallopoli on display.
medal becomes ownership of the family after it is awarded.In this way thru loss of life of family member.
so if they throw it in their attic or sell for 1.2m.
really no difference.might be from our history but it is theirs.
hey it got paid by some rich fark who could spare it.
and somehow Stokes and Howard get some good PR for it.
Old big Kerry might have outbidded him,if he was still here.
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Australian VC medal sells for 1.2 million dollars
ANZAC_Lord4war wrote:
AUSTRALIAN VC medal sells for 1.2 million dollarsat auction becoming a new record price for a service medal paid anywhere in the world.
Was the high price due to its rarity value?
The daughters of Charles Upham ( V.C. and Bar, the only ever bar awarded to a V.C. holder for combat service ) wish to sell the medals to a British collecter. The New Zealand G'ument don't like the idea, but are too cheap to pony up to keep them here.
I think it is their business. If their dad, who earnt the bloody things, had of cared, he could have done something about it. He DID do something, he left them to his daughters.
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Australian VC medal sells for 1.2 million dollars
Badger-Bag wrote:
Was the high price due to its rarity value?
Absolutely....All the 7 other Gallipoli VC's are in the museum, this was the last one of the set.
Same story about the government NOT buying the medal. I would like to see important medals, artifacts, remains, artworks repatriated for museum collections. I dont mind paying, after all Mr Shout and Mr Upham made the ultimate sacrifice, I believe they would like to see their descendants benefit.
We were lucky our medal ended up where it belongs, if the NZ VC ends up in a private collection that would be a shame...............
To my way of thinking ... im confident that , these blokes, wouldnt have givin a stuff about the medal.. and im sure that they werent thinking about their future descendents,only of their mates that surrounded them. and if they are looking down today, on there great great grandchildren, i would think that they would be so proud, that there few minutes of valour, would be so valued, in a piece of metal, that it could advance so profoundly their offspring, after all the deed of there courage isnt installed in a medal... but in the memory.in saying that, im confident the kiwi medal will never leave that mighty little island.. and yes my =tax payer dolllars, would rather be spent there!!
Yeh it might be historicly a nice item to have, but hardly worth that kind of money. Aren't the actions of these men, being remembered, much more important than some stupid medal that some old tart gave out after reading, how well "her" soldiers had fought.
In this way you can say that giving a medal is more a way of the queen to link herself to couragous actions by people she didn't want to know anything about before they became heroes...showing the world how fine "her" soldiers are, while these guys were giving their lifes, she was prolly nagging about her swan being too rare.
Wouldn't that money be better spend on educating kids about history for instance and show them how royalty has been screwing with the common people for centuries, instead of glorifying some medal they gave to compensate for their lack of interest in the past ? Wasn't it her family that decided these "trouble makers" would be better off on an island thousands of miles away?
Chef- " I just wanted to learn how to fucking cook man!"
Your personal feelings are running away with you. Some self doubt, lack of personal confidence, something of the sort.
The Queen has NOTHING to do with the granting award. She serves Her position exactly as a grunt on sentry go does, She was BORN into service to the race, and has never been asked if She WANTS it, or offered an alternative. When She was a girl, hitler had Her on a deathlist, also purely based on the accident of Her birth.
Her personal worth, (completely separate to the Crowns various supporting funds that go with Her position, to pay for Her DUTIES, Her OBLIGATIONS) from inheritances from many different members of Her family, are more than enough to allow Her to live a life of ease. INSTEAD, She spends Her life on a schedule as the British Races' figurehead. She does Her duty. You are as unfit to judge Her, as you are ignorant of the truth of Her role.
The Victoria Cross is granted at the behest of Her Majesties govenrments, not HER. People are put forward for the honour (at least in New Zealand this is so, and I am sure it is so in the OTHER British Commonwealth countries too ) at the recommendation of their superiors in the Forces. The loyal Governments take the recommendation and submit it to the British War Office. THEY then look at the issues, as well as pervious awards.
The Queen, in Her figurehead role of the State in question, physically makes the Award. Her opinion is never asked, not because it isn't valued, but because INTERGRAL to her role, is the fact that She is EVERYONES representive, an absolutely impartial, non-partisan representative. If She was granted the yes or no, it would involve a value judgement, the precise thing Her position AVOIDS.
And for you to allow yourself a sneering denigration of the AWARD, is equivalent to you sneering at the Men that gave their faith to the Crown, earnt that high honour.
I would LOVE you to go along with your childish sneering, and try to explain yourself and your opinion of the Sovereign, at 28 Maori Battalions christmas party. Please to let me know when it is to be, I will come along with a video camera.
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: mmm
well answered Badger!
lol @ Coyote!
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
Oh I'm not self confident, but you need a battalion of maori's versus me alone
Bring it on!! :hurt7
Anyway I never meant to sneer the actions of these men, and I never did. These men did fight in the name of the queen, but I doubt they had a picture of the queen in their wallets. Just because I made fun of a feudalist system, doesn't mean I don't honor what these men fought for. And I know that's what makes the VC valuable for you.
I'm still up for some maori dodging if you pay my ticket , would love to see the country
Chef- " I just wanted to learn how to fucking cook man!"
Thats one of the best explainations of the British constitutional system of government I've seen for a long time Badger.
Maybe in this day and age a Monarch as Head of State is a little anachronistic, but show me a better system that works?
Should we have Presidents? I don't think so, while I'm hardly a 'Royalist' I couldn't think of a worse person to 'represent' Great Britain than a worn out politico, simply there from party interests.
Given the choice between Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair or Elizabeth the 2nd, I know which I would rather have.
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: mmm
never been into royalty but in the first WW wasnt the monarchy a King?
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
These men did fight in the name of the queen, but I doubt they had a picture of the queen in their wallets.
*Well, that just makes you a doubter, not CORRECT. My fathers brother died in WW2, on a Lancaster, riding in the tail gun. He survived 17 missions, then was unable to leave the aircraft when it was attack, and disabled, set on fire. The citation on his DFM has the Co Pilot claiming that my Uncle Peter Victor Mclaren remained at his post, firing at the enemy as they all left the plane. I would like to think that wasn't so, prefer it that he had been killed already and his brother-in-arms was simply trying to give Peters 13 year old brother, and mother and father, something to be proud of. Because the plane then disappeared, completely engulfed in flames.
My Nan kept every single piece of his kit that was returned from G.B. And in it are three wallet sized photos. One of Nan, Grandad and my dad. One of a Pommie girl, looking very seriously happy, called Vicky or perhaps Nicky. The third is a very informal photo of Hs Majesty George the 6th looking his typically pensive self. At his side, with the grand loving smile of the world for Her man, is Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Consort ( The Queen mum that was ) I just tried to add this, and a scan of his medals but the file was too big. Where would he have got that, if not something that had been copied and made available to the servicemen for morale purposes? Or maybe something sold or given away on his ascending the throne?, for morale purposes of the whole lot of us, servicemen in the haul.
MANY servicemen on the beginning of their active service write personally to the Queen, mate. As a kind of personal act of feality, and don't take MY word for that, write to YOUR royal household and ask the major domo, I bet that I am right that YOUR servicepeople also do this, my side of the bet is a "Lets Go New Zealand", what are you willing to front with?.*
coyotee wrote:
Just because I made fun of a feudalist system, doesn't mean I don't honor what these men fought for. And I know that's what makes the VC valuable for you.
*Please to make as much fun as you wish of FEUDALIST systems my friend. And we will stretch a point and allow for you to include the very worthy Democratic Monarchal system of the British Commonwealth and in fact your OWN country under that title, though it is NOT fuedalist at all. The SYSTEM that is.
However, don't turn your cheeky tongue on my Sovereigns' Person, if you please, She has never done anything to deserve it, is actually literally a grandmother, someones NANA, and figuratively MY Grandmother too. And being rude about peoples NANAS is a capital offence in this part of the world.
And you are wrong actually. Sure, if we DIDN'T have a Queen, we would have some other medal, and value THAT. The link of generations, the sense of community, the prestige and history of the Royal hand and name, however, do in fact add to , and burnish the value, the honour of the V.C. And don't take my word for THAT either, you only have to watch the quite eglatarian people that recieve Queens Service medals, and the like, being interviewed after they have been honoured by their Peoples Representative, the medal that is usually awarded by their peers, or their community, but placed on them by the awful might and majesty of their Sovereign, the living breathing Head of their people.
Heads of charitable organisations ALWAYS say two things. "I am very pleased to have accepted this medall in the name of all the many people that I work with in my charity" AND " It really was something amazing, really made me understand the value of this award, to recieve it from Her Majesty".
it even made that brash Bugger Richard Branson tongue tied.
And no filthy POLITICAL appointee, some partisan ratbag winner of a mere POPULARITY CONTEST, someone CERTAIN SURE to only represent half, or LESS THAT half of "His" people, is capable of shifting Richard Bransons self love one iota. No. Presidents are good enough for golf clubs, and other petty organisations, but they are not fit to serve a whole PEOPLE well.
*
coyotee wrote:
I'm still up for some maori dodging if you pay my ticket , would love to see the country
Well, all I can do is tell you that you are welcome down here. The place is set up to cater to backpackers AND millionares, it never gets what a Dutchman ought to consider COLD, west coast for rainy walks in the rainy-forest, east coast for the beaches, North island has a spine of volcanos/hotpools/disfunctional towns full of VERY dodgy maori boys for you to dodge/drink with/buy Dak off/swap diseases with through the vector of their sisters/cousins/mums, South Island has a Spine of uplift-tectonic alps, full of Northern Hemisphere poser ski-boys and larconic dodgy high country farmer boys for you to etc etc ( see above ).
If I had the money for a fare, trust me, I would come demand satisfaction in Beers from you, and TELL you about New Zealand, I wouldn't send YOU the fare. Kiwis may be a silly bird that can't fly, but not THAT silly.
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