Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: wrong Icon Style code?
wallach79 wrote:
Thank you for the mod, it will be more funy to play it for me, since I'm Romanian. I like very much the maps and the fact you made a mod about Operation Uranus - this was a turning point of 2nd ww that deserves a mod. I've seen a problem, though: the uniforms of axis forces are brown (?!) and the white camo uniforms for Axis and Soviets are the same. I checked that with QClone and yes, indeed there are only two paint schemes for Axis (number 0 for winter uniforms and number 6 for brown uniforms). This is not historically corect, since neither one had brown uniforms. German winter uniforms were gray and Romanian ones khaki. I don't know about Italians uniforms color. I noticed then that the Soviet white camo uniforms are the same with those of Axis (number 0 in QClone table). First thing that I did was to change the Romanian uniforms colors with CplFilth Soldiercolor editor. I used a free number (5 in QClone) and gave them the same value as for the soviet ones (since they are khaki) in Stalingrad mod. Ok, this thing can be improved too, but I think you know these facts but just you didn't have enough time to finish the mod.
I was also very surprised to find my German teams without winter uniforms turning up for battle in brown uniforms (?). After reading wallach79's post I decided to take a closer look with QClone. After studying and messing about with the GETeams.adb file...I found out where the brown uniforms came from. In GETeams.adb the Icon Style column=6, this refers to Sodier Color Slots=20,21 & 22...this is brown (defaulted to US AB uniforms).
I found out from the CC5.exe file that PJ made custom Color Slots for SDK...after some searching I'm guessing the best colors for German Infantry would be color slots 6,7 & 8 (these are gray and replacing the default FJ colors). So maybe the Icon Style should be set to = 2 ... and not 6?
I haven't tinkered with AlsTeam.adb...now that I've got gray uniformed Germans...I can resume the battle! I don't care if the Russians assault my defenses wearing clown costumes...as long as my troops are dressed properly
BTW, great work on the mod PJ! The maps are amazing...and the Soviet AI (without vetmod) is very aggresive...sometimes suicidal...yeah!
You're personally responsible for my lack of sleep these coming weeks .
The Italian winter uniform was green just like thier summer uniforms, except Alpini and elite recon troops who had white uniforms. The Hungarians I think had a molted pepper brown colored uniform.
From "Army Uniforms Of World War 2" (Blandford Colour Series Book) the Italians in the Russian campaign wore Dark Gray-Green uniforms...IMHO almost like to the Germans Gray. Romanians wore khaki uniform.
So using the current SDK CC5.exe, I changed the style column to 2 for the Italians and 6 for the Romanians.
Personally I prefer the German darker gray of Stalingrad (or from the Uniform mofor reg CC5)...the grays from the SDK CC5.exe are not dark enough.
PJ, where are you? I want to hear from you about SDK's uniform color design. Did you design the Germans to wear brown/khaki for your mod?
Sorry to come back to you only now: I was out of my home for professional reasons and just come back.
First of all, let me tell you that I have been very interested by your posts regarding the uniforms, but....surprised as well. In fact, when I began to develop the mod, I spent quite a lot of time to try to work on the uniforms. I even entered the exe file...sometimes with surprising effects, I have to say!
After some time, I just realised that I was simply losing my time to try to improve all these ridiculously small (unfortunately!!!) soldiers of our favorite game. It was just trying to paint the head of a needle! I really made a pause in this work to spend my time to other much more important (at least in my opinion) aspects of the game and, I have to admit, never came back to this. I just gave a snow cammo to all the soldiers that historically did have one (number 0) and a "summer uniform" to the others. For me, it was not important as I really found nobody to distinguish the brown, kaki, dark grey, grey, light brown etc... uniform on all these small small small sprites... Even the beta testers did not make any comment. And in addition (don't laugh, it is NOT a joke!) I am daltonian and don't waste your time to explain me the difference between a kaki and a brown!
That's said, I have to admit that I should maybe have taken more attention to this issue.
As a result, I have turned all the germans and italians (not the ones with snow cammo) into the soldier number 2 which is I think close to this grey/green colour well known as "Feldgrau". It is better, I have to say. This will be fixed in the 1.1 version of SDK which will be released around 2017. (!)
Regarding the two other aspects, I have to say that I don't totally agree with you, guys. I have bought when developing the game a lot of Militaria magazines (mainly to have access to pictures of romanian units, the ones you can see in the mod) and I can tell you that in november more or less all the units were still wearing their summer uniform, far far far from being kaki, but 100% brown (or we don't agree with the term of"kaki" which is a blend of green, brown and yellow called is french "caca d'oie" (litteraly: goose shit) but rather close to green).
So, I am not really wanting to change the romanians from number 6 to another one (whose one? I don't know) BUT, if this really causes a problem to you, please make me a suggestion and I will follow you. Once again, I really believe this is a minor issue in CC game.
Last, the winter cammos. If I understand well, you distinguish the soviet ones which might be dark white, and the german ones, which should be light grey!!!! Hey men, as we (once again) say in french: vous coupez les cheveux en quatre (you cut the hair into four)....Once again, I will be happy to follow your suggestions, but I really think you are over sensitive from the eyes....
Ouf! I have been long, but I appreciated your comments. JUst looking now for your suggestions. They will be in the v1.1 version.
Just one last thing: for those of you who have difficulties with the AI, just wait for the VetMod: you will see what you will see....
I'm sensitive to all details and I admit that, it's a good thing to make a mod as close to reality as possible and the color of uniforms isn't really hard to modify. About the color of Romanian uniform - if we're looking at strategic map we can see a Romanian soldier on Ro unit icons. He has a khaki close to green, and I agree with you about this color- green - but it's not in any case brown. Soviet khaki was more lighter and close to yellow/brown. Soviet winter camo cannot be the same as for the axis because there are "feldgrau" parts of uniform which really doesn't fit them. You said about version 1.1 in 2017, ok:)
After years and years of playing our favourite game...my eyes have adapted to the tiny soldier sprites and after hours of battles sometimes I start seeing the creases on their tiny uniforms .
I have a thing with CC soldier uniforms I guess...I love the difference the CC5Uniforms submod brought to the regular CC5 for example.
The cool thing is with the current SDK CC5.exe from Pzjager...if players want to see Germans and Italians in field gray uniforms...you would only need to play around with QClone and not have to use the Soldier Color Editor tool and change the exe file.
With current soldier color scheme, just change the Germans and Italian teams Style from 6 to 2.
2017 was of course a joke. v1.1 should be released when the amount of improvements will be big enough...
OK, men, what I did and already tested is to change the germans and the italians in 2 (except those who have a winter cammo in 0), leave the romanians in 6 and change the german tank crews (who were actually dressed in black) in 7.
If you want to improve as well the russians, please let me know, but most of them will remain in winter cammo (0), and the others in.....
Hi everyone! I'll tell you what I have done: looking in exe file I found these scheme as most adequate:
-German/Italian winter camo- remains 0
-German/Italian regular uniforms- changes from 6 in 2
-Romanian winter camo- changes from 0 to 8 (8 doesn't have the feldgrau parts of 0)
-Romanian regular uniforms- changes from 6 to 5 ( this is really a khaki not a brown)
-Romanian vehicles/gun have either 5 or 8
-German vehicles crews - changes to 7
-Soviet winter camo- changes from 0 (which was similar to Germans) in 9
-Soviet regular uniforms - becomes 6 (to be differentiate from Romanian khaki)
-Soviet vehicles/ guns have either 9 or 6
If anyone is interested I could upload the files until Pzjager come with his 1.1 version.
Pzjager, thanks a lot for your extra time looking into this...I know that you must be sick and tired of looking through the files after working on SDK for so long. Your mod is simply amazing...and with the uniforms issue sorted out...it will just make it even better!
wallach79, thanks for the data! I guess I'll be busy with QClone before my next battle tonight. Brrrr...
wallach79, thanks a lot for the research! The colors looks great...the snow battles now looks even more chilling!
We were luky that those colors were already in the exe file, otherwise we would have to work more. I'm happy that you find them looking great. But even these scheme could be improved, nothing is perfect !
Just a few lines of feedback. I've tried the mod since some days, despite work and tons of other concerns.
After two days of fighting, playing the russian (I love playing the attacking side), I can say that even against the AI it's not an easy mod, maybe not as hard as Winter War (but in this one the russian weapons seem to have a very low kill power), yet you have to fight agressively and to have losses to make your way through german positions, especially on the first day to make the breakthrough.
About the slow vehicles, I think it's realistic, and the vehicles aren't that slow in the end. If so, those Stugs wouldn't turn that fast to wipe my infantry on the factory map. The problem of tanks or other AFVs stuck on some parts of a map isn't new in CC, so there's no need to complain.
A cool thing is the gun graphics too (and the graphics in general, but guns graphics impressed me for an unknown reason), and the way the maps are done: there are always some LOS surprises or so, and they're big enough to manoeuver, but not too big when it comes to the placement of units.
And the best thing of all: the AI is aggressive. They always try to assault and take VLs it seems. So youhave to battle until the last minutes of the game.
So to end these lines: thank you. Merci.
EDIT: And I forgot one thing: those arty observers and Katyuschas saved my day more than once. Or stopped my attacks more than once when Germans used it...
Just a few lines of feedback. I've tried the mod since some days, despite work and tons of other concerns.
After two days of fighting, playing the russian (I love playing the attacking side), I can say that even against the AI it's not an easy mod, maybe not as hard as Winter War (but in this one the russian weapons seem to have a very low kill power), yet you have to fight agressively and to have losses to make your way through german positions, especially on the first day to make the breakthrough.
About the slow vehicles, I think it's realistic, and the vehicles aren't that slow in the end. If so, those Stugs wouldn't turn that fast to wipe my infantry on the factory map. The problem of tanks or other AFVs stuck on some parts of a map isn't new in CC, so there's no need to complain.
A cool thing is the gun graphics too (and the graphics in general, but guns graphics impressed me for an unknown reason), and the way the maps are done: there are always some LOS surprises or so, and they're big enough to manoeuver, but not too big when it comes to the placement of units.
And the best thing of all: the AI is aggressive. They always try to assault and take VLs it seems. So youhave to battle until the last minutes of the game.
So to end these lines: thank you. Merci.
EDIT: And I forgot one thing: those arty observers and Katyuschas saved my day more than once. Or stopped my attacks more than once when Germans used it...
Many many thanks!
Just one thing: You are one of the players who have found the tank's speed realistic (as I wanted it to be!). Some others have found it too slow...
Hmmm, it is difficult to satisfy anybody!!!
However, after some inside reflexion, I will increase a little the tanks speed in the V1.1. This would satisfy everybody while staying historical...... Not an easy task!
Anywway, many thanks for your comments, and wait also for the V1.1 Vetmods, which are tougher.... if you want.
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