Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: Fantastic Game!
Playing as the Germans (elite) against the Russians (recruit) on the Grand Campaign. Oh my god! Fantastic game! So much blood!
Just discoved that 12cm mortars can knock out INVULNERABLE KV-1 on the ice! Already been slaughtering red infantry with my mortars as they cross the ice...
Pity the AI is so crap because I lose 2-4 objectives against Ivan if his attack goes well. "Hmm, drive my KV-1 forward... and back." Ivan's foot goes forward and I try to wipe them out with mortars, rockets, artillery barrage. Huge slaughter when the tanks stay back.
Usual CC5 faults:
1. AT guns are extremely vulnerable.
2. Pak-40 rather ineffective, even the Flak-36 took 5 hits! to kill a T-34 crippled on the first shot... Gah!
3. Occasional tendency for one's machinegunners to go BLIND! "Can't See", you've in direct line of sight and everyone else can see them, you stupid little f*****g m****n!!!
Apart from those (I suspect unfixable) faults, I love this mod.
Would suggest for 1.3 that the infantry be 'tidied up': that is light-machinegun teams incorportated into the rifle sections, so a 7-man rifle section would have a machinegunner and loader and the other normal characters. Gets annoying running out of machinegun teams when the small force gets blown apart by mortars...
Stupid thought but... is there any way to deal with the AI tanks being able to shoot round corners at your AT guns or tanks? Very, very annoying...
Thanks All!
Richard
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Fantastic Game!
Wien1938 wrote:
Playing as the Germans (elite) against the Russians (recruit) on the Grand Campaign. Oh my god! Fantastic game! So much blood!
Just discoved that 12cm mortars can knock out INVULNERABLE KV-1 on the ice! Already been slaughtering red infantry with my mortars as they cross the ice...
Pity the AI is so crap because I lose 2-4 objectives against Ivan if his attack goes well. "Hmm, drive my KV-1 forward... and back." Ivan's foot goes forward and I try to wipe them out with mortars, rockets, artillery barrage. Huge slaughter when the tanks stay back.
Usual CC5 faults:
1. AT guns are extremely vulnerable.
2. Pak-40 rather ineffective, even the Flak-36 took 5 hits! to kill a T-34 crippled on the first shot... Gah!
3. Occasional tendency for one's machinegunners to go BLIND! "Can't See", you've in direct line of sight and everyone else can see them, you stupid little f*****g m****n!!!
Apart from those (I suspect unfixable) faults, I love this mod.
Would suggest for 1.3 that the infantry be 'tidied up': that is light-machinegun teams incorportated into the rifle sections, so a 7-man rifle section would have a machinegunner and loader and the other normal characters. Gets annoying running out of machinegun teams when the small force gets blown apart by mortars...
Stupid thought but... is there any way to deal with the AI tanks being able to shoot round corners at your AT guns or tanks? Very, very annoying...
Thanks All!
Richard
Hi,
Happy that you like the mod! It is always very interesting to get some detailed feedback as yours.
Just to answer to three of your comments:
1) AT guns vulnerability: this is, as you say, a CC issue. I have tried to fix that as far as I could, but this stupid AI has decided round by the beginning that a soldier behind the -thin- armor of a gun was 100 times more vulnerable to a mortar attack than the same soldier in open terrain....
2) Mortar attack on ice (or every strong surface) are much more efficient than on smooth terrain... That's just the reality.
PaK's are ineffective???? Very surprised to read that. I can tell you that I have in my saved files a series of Paks which were quite effective during the campaign, including a PaK38 who destroyed in Pitomnik 12 Tanks so far...
I think that we have to be careful about the fact that in CC, like in the reality, shooting at first does not mean a kill. Read all historical stories and you will se that tanks were more often destroyed after 4 or 5 shots rather than at the first one....
Anyway, interesting comments and, once again, thanks for all.
And don't forget that Stalingrad:Operation Circle should give you even more....Let's wait until next january!
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: Reply
First point of reply: I'm not complaining about the enhanced effectiveness of high explosive on ice - I like it! Make the game more challanging.
Second point: the anti-tank gun issue is becoming a real problem. I cannot get a tank kill in the time it takes the tank to survive the first shot (of up to 20, I'm not kidding) and then explodes the gun on the first reply shot. Even the 88 is not very useful.
The Ju-87D strike is VERY useful in both splattering the infantry and stopping the tanks, but because German forces have not recieved the faustpatrone they are reliant on the AT guns. Which as I have just pointed out, bang away at a tank - with little to no effect - and get swatted aside like an insect. Even the 88 has this problem.
I've had more tank kills from suicidal infantry attacks than from the AT guns. Something is wrong here.
Richard
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Reply
Wien1938 wrote:
I've had more tank kills from suicidal infantry attacks than from the AT guns. Something is wrong here.
Richard
I would really like to help you, but the problem here is that I don't understand your issue! So how can I resolve it?
I have played so far three full grand campaigns and each time my Tanks and AT guns have been "historically correct" as they have destroyed a lot of enemy tanks in "real" conditions ("real" meaning here something in between the first shot and the 5th one....). Once again, tanks, in WW2, were most frequently destroyed after having been shot by not only one shell! We have to be careful not to take the CC3 (and, at less extend, the CC4 and 5) battle conditions as the historical reality. In CC3, more or less, the first to fire wins. I remember having played 2 minutes battles with 3 PaK40 in face of 7 or 8 russian tanks, destroying them one after the other without any problem... SDK will NOT follow this. It was a choice, right by the beginning, to make the battle realistic.
I have attached to my answer three pictures taken from my current campaign. As you can see, AT guns are not really ridiculous. And Tank losses of the Reds are fantastic.
Of course, you have to be careful with playing with AT guns!
And, last, I agree that the CC engine is ridiculous to make the AT Guns so fragile against HE attack! It is NOT my fault!
If you want, I can modify a bit the datas in order for you to have better performance with your AT Guns. It is 10 minutes work and I can send you the files by EMail. It will be a pleasure.
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: Reply
I'm sorry if you thought I was blaming you, I'm not - honest!
Regarding the campaign map, I'm done even better than that playing as Germans on Elite against Russians on Recruit. But that is more down to the AI's incompetance (which I do not blame you for).
The issue with the AT guns is one which I am not too sure how to fix in the first place. I've been through the ADP files with QClone (v.useful program) and everything I've seen looks sound.
Really what I'm asking for is a bit of advice both in tactics and in why the tanks seem to be so survivable. The only thing I can think of it vehicle integrity, since the KV-1 and T34/41 have v.high integrity (400/300) and I wonder if it is too high.
Please understand that I am not advocating one-shot-kills in the game - I agree that it should take somewhere between 1-5 hits to destroy a tank but I cannot accomplish this at the moment.
The problem I am facing is typically this: Pak38 or Pak40, in ambush shoots at the side or rear of a T-34 or a KV-1. The first shot deflects, then the second and then maybe the third will damage it a little. By this time the tank has turned it's turret and blown the gun away in a single shot. Nothing tactically seems to work.
I'm amazed by your gunners' records, can you tell me how you accomplished this?
Richard
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: Reply
Ok, I may need to apologise. I've just run several tests on custom scenarios and the guns have worked fine - I cannot imagine why it went wrong before. It might be something to do with difficulty levels which I imagined only affected force pool allocations but may reduce weapon effect or something.
Anyhow, back to the game.
Thanks for your replies, PzJaeger and patience... It was really frustrating before hand trying to get my ATG to KO enemy tanks... Must be the Elite setting.
Richard
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Reply
Wien1938 wrote:
Ok, I may need to apologise. I've just run several tests on custom scenarios and the guns have worked fine - I cannot imagine why it went wrong before. It might be something to do with difficulty levels which I imagined only affected force pool allocations but may reduce weapon effect or something.
Anyhow, back to the game.
Thanks for your replies, PzJaeger and patience... It was really frustrating before hand trying to get my ATG to KO enemy tanks... Must be the Elite setting.
Richard
Absolutely no problem! I like to discuss with the SDK mod players....even if I had really some problems to understand what was wrong with you.... You know, CC has been so much moded that some players have their files very much corrupted.... I really believe that before playing a new CC mod, you have to wash your CC base file. There are conflicts coming from everywhere.
Anyway, to answer to your question:
1) AT guns are strong and poor at the same time. Strong because:
a) The power of their gun is strong
b) They can hide in covered terrain (But it is YOU who places them at the beginning of the battle, man, !!!!!!!). If you don't, it will be a disaster.
c) Place your AT guns in a place that is under the fire of at least 2 of them!! I have shown you the PaK38 Lobewein with 12 Victories. This gun (still alive!!!) is in the Pitomnik Airport, helped with tyhe 2 Pak41 you have also in the pics. They are in "BATTERY". THey fire all at the same time, all together. No one KV can survive.
OK, let's finish now. I don't want to give all the CC secrets!!!
If you are interested -or anyone playing CC- I can send you the SDK w<ordbook I am making -containing all the CC SDK tips- and you should change your opinion...
Be careful, however: I just suffered some 30 minutes ago a large defeat in Beketovka. In SDK, there is no definitive solution. I have to breathe a little and tomorrow will be a better day!!
Cheers
PJ
P.S. Just wait for SOC and you will see what can be CC5 even with what I agree with you to call a "stupid AI"
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Reply
Wien1938 wrote:
The Ju-87D strike is VERY useful in both splattering the infantry and stopping the tanks, but because German forces have not recieved the faustpatrone they are reliant on the AT guns. Which as I have just pointed out, bang away at a tank - with little to no effect - and get swatted aside like an insect. Even the 88 has this problem.
Stukas were extremely effective dive bombers, they had 90% accuraucy when bombing targets (especially tanks and boats).
I am in a H2H GC and right now we are midway through the third round with me playing as the Germans and after seeing the numbers you posted in you campaign I am a little worried after seeing that 1072 Russians tanks killed.I am playing the regular GC and if those are the kind of numbers of tanks I'll be facing I think I can rule out any type of major or decisive victory on my part.
I have been thrown quite a few suprises so far and anyone starting a H2H I would like to offer what I have noticed so far.
1. Don't underestimate the Romanians.I have to BG's that are cut off and out of supply and they are still holding on. As a mater of fact in Serifomavitch(pretty sure I didn't spell that right)that unit has destroyed more KV-1's than any german units and is still holding outfor at least 1 more turn.
2. Hide your AT guns well. The Pak40 is deadly to KV-1's but the FO's and Katushas(again dont think I spelt it right)are deadly to them. So far it seems that they will get the shots off and destroy the tanks but as soon as they do they are spotted and taken out.It is like trading the tank for the gun the problem is as the germans you dont have as many guns as they have tanks.The Pak38 and others are okay but you must have a decent close shot.
3. Russian artillery is the real killer. The russians are very loaded with field guns,FO's,Katushas and mortar's.It seems now that whenever I have a unit get spotted there is an enormous barrage and my defense is wrecked.
I would also like to say thanks to Pzjager for creating a game that keeps me up at night trying to figure out what I'm going to do next,and looking forward to SOC
I am in a H2H GC and right now we are midway through the third round with me playing as the Germans and after seeing the numbers you posted in you campaign I am a little worried after seeing that 1072 Russians tanks killed.I am playing the regular GC and if those are the kind of numbers of tanks I'll be facing I think I can rule out any type of major or decisive victory on my part.
Hi,
I play with the German Vetmod, and I am now finishing my campaign...1072 is actually not very far from the total number of russian tanks, as I have more or less totally destroyed them! To be honest, I have suffered terrible losses as well but by hiding well the AT guns and using them in cooperation -not alone of course!!!), the mod is totally playable. I proved it!
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