[shasadou]

this might insult one`s senses. \\besides in Russia degenerates calling themselves as skinheads tend to celebrate this day with killings, beating, violance an so on//i dont understand your tolerance in this respect!

[Polemarchos]

it has been locked, delete is in discussion...

i agree with you

[ZAPPI4]

I guess it's better to dont delete it and keep post online to show to
eveyone what we dont tolerate. If we delete it, someone may post again
about same case.
I know this kind of post can be hurt for many reasons ...
And as Polemarchos show you, we dont tolerate it

[Searry]

Ahhah. People take internet too seriously. It was an obvious troll.

[king_tiger_tank]

[Searry]

[Polemarchos]

well, in its core, it is a question about virtue ethics. Not an internet drama.

no post on CCS will be deleted if referring to Hitler. no user will be banned for such a thing either. But we have to admit that the promotion of a person, who was delighted by mass murder and genocide and is commonly recognized as the reason mankind created the UN Human Rights declaration in 1948, is unethical. This means that celebrating the birthday of Adolf Schicklgruber (real name) , and by that a man's life that cannot be taken as a paradigm for any of us, even if meant as joke or zynically, does not fall into the realm of freedom of speech.

[shasadou]

dear polemarchos, my opinion is the following: adi hitler is the symbol, so to say, an appelative name for all what is contrary to humanity - he violated the natural rights and liberties of millions of people (the most horrible one - is the right to live), let alone the freedom of speech..

and this is not just UNETHICAL, it is beyond law (there are cases in Russia when young stupid men got enjailed for the nazi greeting or zig heil or whatever favourable recall of the nazis). the crimes of nazi regime are widely recognised and any indulgence to the attibutes of nazis (which is also adi) is not just mere lack of manners but rather a crime also.

i incline to think that european tolerance promotes neonazi and other radical ideas in europe..

[AT_Stalky]

Shasadou

I feel 100% sure CCS and almost all of users of CCS feels exact like you do.
I think Zapp and Pole have said that clear.
You want to delete the thread, yes its tempting to do that, we all hovered over the delete button in that thread, I can promise you that.
But what message does it send if it’s deleted? Its gone… No message at all..
Now that thread is locked and said that type of “celebration” is not tolerated in CCS, don’t that send a better message then total delete of the thread?

Vacuum don’t send any messages and don’t state anything.

But be sure, I agree/feel the same emotions when I saw that thread.



There you have my standing on the issue.

[Polemarchos]

good point shasadou... in my eyes ethics and nomos (law) are either the same or that ethics supercede laws. Ethics creates laws, not vice versa.

I know what u talking about, i live in Germany. ironically sometimes even restrained people like me however, are getting mad about the anti-nazi laws in Germany/Europe even if limited.

Two examples:

1) Selling a picture of Adi on Ebay for instance is blocked, selling one of Stalin isnt...
2) A t-shirt manufacturer was sued by a german court for using the very same pic Stalky posted. Explanation: Promotion of the swastika.... -> There u see, law is imperfect.

[shasadou]

1. ok, i agree with you.

so then could you please make the thread "sticky" that for it is always in the top of the forum? will it then provide enough message?

2. offtop:
polemarchos, western democracy is not the relevant model for Russia, authoritarian governance is histroically adequate model for Russia. such model is ignorant enough to completely suppress too left trends and carefree enough to let people live freely.

imho: the drawback with western democracy model is that theoretically a too left radical formation can come to reigning (due to support of population), in practice: Austria, and to some extent France and Scandinavian countries. although the western democracy won`t ever be close to the mentality of the Russian people.

dunno how it is in Germany or other western countries, but the Russian legislation prosecutes under law all the faschi, nazi, extremist, etc "political" formations.

p.s.
havent been to icq for ages =)

[Polemarchos]

[shasadou]

well, i m not with hotmail.com anymore =)

my mail is shasadou [at] mail [dot] ru

please write i ll react duly

[AT_Stalky]

[shasadou]

i believe currently the goverments in those countries are not very radical =)

however the public sentiments seem to transform there.

btw i meant Norway Sweden and Finland as scandinavian countries

[Therion]

[AT_Stalky]

[shasadou]

Stalky, no offence please.

these are the words of some speaker from Sweden`s embassy in Moscow in october last year, when Sweden embassy held an open meeting re Raul Vallenberg mainly, and besides that she also touched the topic of xenophobia in modern Sweden due to recent heavy flows of migrants, she mentioned that this problem was becoming more and more actual - since Sweden had never known this phenomenon.

her words are very suprising to me as Sweden has always been admitted to be one of the most liberal countries in this respect, well, people tend to exaggerate things when it touches them deeply.

(by "left" i imply radical views - surely depending on what party is actually in power, this can be radical right as well)

[AT_Stalky]

If you base your statement about Sweden on one what (2 minutes?) TV news reportage...

And yes, the fate of Raul Wallenberg is a deap cut in Swedish people and in Jews to.
And Rauls work to save jews in Hunagy, was revarded by the soviets by them taking Raul to Moscow and there he whent up the smokestak of a Soviet Smersj shimny...

Radical... left - Right.... Sweden... Radical... What exactly is radical in Sweden?

[Polemarchos]