As an admittedly accursed fan (read cheerleader for those peckerwood pissnmoaners) of CC in all its forms and fashions (read wargamer since the 50's and never found anything to touch CC yet), and also admittedly as someone who has had an inside look at the making of WaR, I'm still not afraid to say...
"WaR is the Best CC Product Yet!"
- Mark my words dudes (and feel free to pillory me = been done & got the shirt)
yeppers objective fact! - and that is the conundrum for all of us hard-core CC fans - can any "new" product be good enough to satisfy our needs? - I'm saying yes! - even though I have had an insight into the guts n garters of the production process, which is an amazing amount of hard work by a group of dedicated and skilled CC player-maker-fans, - I still compare the end product - the game itself - to the thrill I had as as hard-core war-gamer being introduced to the game in the first instance - CC2 - I thought WOW this very accurately simulates land-based tactical engagments in WWII ,and there are a myriad of possibilities especially for H2H play! - so farkin pillory me (as I have been in the past dudes for gettin excited = you crying, pissin n bitchin poltroons who demand all and contibute next to nothing yet still hang on every word of a new re-release and try to bring it down in every way)
hey hey...bottom line from an addicted CC fan? - this new (and I mean it = NEW) CC evolution Rocks the House!
if you want something better = get on board = this CC thing is open to CC freak n fans working together to make it better
this is just a game but if you like WWII tactical it really fills the bill
sorry dude(s), the AI is definitely improved in WaR but AI really is a matter for the folks at the core of current HW & SW research & development (and niche market WWII gaming doesn't have the budget for that - even if it ain't a fantasy pursuit to begin with) - thinking machines are a little ways off - and based on a quick poll of most of us folks around these parts - it is probably a very good thing (a decent AI would eat our lunch) - you dudes who cry for a CC-AI-thinking-warmongering-beast (digital Rommel) should really try H2H - that is where this game offers the best rewards - I played solo against the AI for years before I took on an opponent and there is NO COMPARISON - H2H with a skilled opponent will give you years of figuring out how to win on any of the 1000+ CC maps n mods
- hey! wake up! Artificial Intelligence? try some organic
Last edited by Flamethrower on Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:26 am; edited 1 time in total
I disagree. It's not an objective fact, because there are different criteria for what makes a CC game good.
To me the most important things are:
1. Proper unit organization.
2. Placing player's competences on realistic level - so, no buying units nor player moving whole battalions and commanding every platoon in the same time.
3. New features in the core of CC gameplay - tactical combat.
Which makes CCMT an obvious choice for the best CC product for me.
Flamethrower wrote:
and that is the conundrum for all of us hard-core CC fans - can any "new" product be good enough to satisfy our needs?
Oh, that's obvious, I guess, according to you, I'm not a hard-core CC fan...
Flamethrower wrote:
I still compare the end product - the game itself - to the thrill I had as as hard-core war-gamer being introduced to the game in the first instance - CC2 - I thought WOW this very accurately simulates land-based tactical engagments in WWII ,and there are a myriad of possibilities especially for H2H play! - so farkin pillory me
*Pillories you again.*
Flamethrower wrote:
hey hey...bottom line from an addicted CC fan? - this new (and I mean it = NEW) CC evolution Rocks the House!
Are you on drugs or what? CCMTII would be NEW and evolution of the core of CC gameplay. W.A.R. is a re-release of a game that is a recycled corpse of CC3 with a new minigame slapped atop of it.
Flamethrower wrote:
CC-AI-thinking-warmongering-beast
Nice hyperbole. How about something that can use basic tactics?
Flamethrower wrote:
should really try H2H
H2H requires finding an opponent that plays the same mod, being on internet at the same time and getting the multiplayer to work. It's pretty hard.
flame here sounds like me a little with CoI, but compared to CoI . CCIV to WaR has More to offer the CCIII to CoI did. and its not even finished yet....somebody said before 'thor has mashed ccv and cciv together' is quite literal. now remove ALL bugs from that massive bugs list written here some 6 months ago(both cciv and ccv) and add a new GC, new maps,more units and its not even all WaR is...
so this is why i agree with flamer.
its more then has been asked. it has gone over and above my expectations.
not spear me with blowhard arrows, i just dont care either...
Are you on drugs or what? CCMTII would be NEW and evolution of the core of CC gameplay. W.A.R. is a re-release of a game that is a recycled corpse of CC3 with a new minigame slapped atop of it.
well, young man, I did take acid in the 60's and I've heard it from a reliable source that once it is in your system it never leaves - so - yes!
but aside from that - jeeze already - do you people have realistic eXpectations? do you actually play the farking game or just post in forums?
recycled corpse of CC3? = of what do you speak? with what knowledge? WaR is a nifty product- if you actually like PLAYING THE FARKIN GAME - yo
Last edited by Flamethrower on Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
sorry dude(s), the AI is definitely improved in WaR but AI really is a matter for the folks at the core of current HW & SW research & development (and niche market WWII gaming doesn't have the budget for that - even if it ain't a fantasy pursuit to begin with) - thinking machines are a little ways off - and based on a quick poll of most of us folks around these parts - it is probably a very good thing (a decent AI would eat our lunch) - you dudes who cry for a CC-AI-thinking-warmongering-beast (digital Rommel) should really try H2H - that is where this game offers the best rewards - I played solo against the AI for years before I took on an opponent and there is NO COMPARISON - H2H with a skilled opponent will give you years of figuring out how to win on any of the 1000+ CC maps n mods
- hey! wake up! Artificial Intelligence? try some organic
I just want the tanks, to go in the right direction, and for them NOT to get scared by houses and bridges, and other bewildering examples.
recycled corpse of CC3? = of what do you speak? with what knowledge? WaR is a nifty product- if you actualy like PLAYING THE FARKIN GAME - yo
*sigh*
That's why I hate the CC community.
I guess you are to busy drooling over your beloved strategy minigame to notice that the evolution of the core of CC - the actual tactical game stopped at the level of CC3.
flame here sounds like me a little with CoI, but compared to CoI . CCIV to WaR has More to offer the CCIII to CoI did. and its not even finished yet....somebody said before 'thor has mashed ccv and cciv together' is quite literal. now remove ALL bugs from that massive bugs list written here some 6 months ago(both cciv and ccv) and add a new GC, new maps,more units and its not even all WaR is...
so this is why i agree with flamer.
its more then has been asked. it has gone over and above my expectations.
not spear me with blowhard arrows, i just dont care either...
Sounds good!
Though the concern mentioned with path finding and orders having to be given over and over probably should be tested more to see if the current beta versions still exhibits this behaviour....
recycled corpse of CC3? = of what do you speak? with what knowledge? WaR is a nifty product- if you actualy like PLAYING THE FARKIN GAME - yo
*sigh*
That's why I hate the CC community.
I guess you are to busy drooling over your beloved strategy minigame to notice that the evolution of the core of CC - the actual tactical game stopped at the level of CC3.
My only request is that people quit ragging on the game til they have played it.
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night
To visit violence on those who would do us harm." - George Orwell
My only request is that people quit ragging on the game til they have played it.
Hey Ross does you lost the gamespy way
I totally agree with you, but ...
What none CC'beta tester or developper can do else?
As they dont get many pix and info about WAR, look at here, we seen
2 strat map pix, that's all.
As u can read, it seems WAR will be the best CC game ever.
Well they for sure redone completly the game cos, in fact,
CC4 was the weird'CC ever.
I mean, CC4 never really get a good "community" player, ( i speak about
number of player), for many " data " problm.
In fact, Game spy get a hudge problm to support CC4 on H2H.
Data weapon was simply unequilibred, some tanks on CC4 seems sometime
too strong, and sometime unpowered.
Anyway, i smile when i heard than WAR will be the best.
This is exactly what we heard about COI, isnt it?
I guess, trying to made the game pretty and nice isnt the better way,
cos this part can be and will be corrected, changed by modder who will
work on mod for WAR. But the source code, the one who is untouchable
by other than official developper need to be corrected first.
Tout est possible ... il faut juste connaitre quand.
i am waiting to see if a price miracle occurs after the release of CCIV aka WaR.
Taking the halved product of the crude oil price and state of the US economy into account and comparing it to the Dollar/Euro exchange rate reveals the majestic skills in mathematics matrix works with:
COI costs 39.99 $ in the states and 34,99 € in Europe (55.6 $) [49,71$ for UK] for the same service.
CCMT costs 29.99$ in the States and 27.99 € in Europe (44.5 $) [38.3 $ for UK] for the same service.
CC WAR will probably cost 49,99 $ and 47,99 € in Europe (76,2$) [UK? about 60$ ] for the same service.
and in the end they will blame trades and tariffs abolished by the GATT system to justify the unequal treatment of custumers abroad.
why is download one and the same game digitally more expensive in Europe than it is in the states. There is no logic explanation for that, except if one makes up cyber-taxes for transatlantic shipment.
p.s. Why is UK cheaper than continental Europe? Ex-colonial masters bonus?
p.s.2. As far as i know it does not work this way with EU products in the States. A BMW 3.16 costs (basic version) costs 26.000 $-30.000$ in the States, in the city in which they are manufactured they cost at least 26.000 Euro. So if EU compnies can adapt market situation in the states, why cant matrix adapt to economic reality in the EU. Or are you looking for cows to melk. Btw. just because the Euro is high doesnt make us Europeans richer, so i dont see any reason paying you more than any other individual on this planet for one and the same game.
I disagree. It's not an objective fact, because there are different criteria for what makes a CC game good.
To me the most important things are:
1. Proper unit organization.
2. Placing player's competences on realistic level - so, no buying units nor player moving whole battalions and commanding every platoon in the same time.
3. New features in the core of CC gameplay - tactical combat.
Which makes CCMT an obvious choice for the best CC product for me.
Hi Therion,
Interesting points, but like you say: it's not objective so I have to disagree with you
1. I agree here. Properly researched force pools are a real plus for the historical feeling of he game.
2. To me, one of the greatest assets of CC5 has always been the 'scaled' approach, where a battle at a lower level determines what happens at a higher level. This greatly increases the scope of the game, since you can model any type of campaign, be it at the tactical level (as you prefer) or at the more strategic level.
Being able to select your units also just gives you more options. Since you mainly seem to play AI, there is nothing to prevent you from leaving the BG composition untouched and 'play with what you get'.
As for me, I really value the fact that you have the option to do so or not. And from what we already know from WaR, it seems you get that choice as well, so no reason to complain really.
And yes, I do think the strategic mini-game is what it's all about. I suppose it's a matter of taste
3. Welcome, but not absolutely essential to me.
I don't buy games that often, but the 64-map stratmap (with all the modding possibilities) together with a couple of new tactical maps alone would already make me want to purchase WaR.
And if they would breach the 27 BG limit, the 20 team slot limit, and make the maps standard maximum size, I would gladly pay even more. The cost/minute gameplay would still be a bargain compared to many other games
Therion wrote:
Are you on drugs or what? CCMTII would be NEW and evolution of the core of CC gameplay. W.A.R. is a re-release of a game that is a recycled corpse of CC3 with a new minigame slapped atop of it.
If you ask me, the core of CC gameplay is the reason why so many of us still play the game. To me, it's good as it is. That doesn't mean it cannot be improved; and of course, things like vehicle pathing should be fixed before the game gets released. But I personally value the simplicity of the game engine, while at the same allowing you to implement many different tactics.
Therion wrote:
H2H requires finding an opponent that plays the same mod, being on internet at the same time and getting the multiplayer to work. It's pretty hard.
And still it's more than worth the effort to play H2H...
The call for a decent AI has already been around since the very beginning of the gaming industry. Not a month goes by with some new game claiming that its AI is revolutionary. And every time, it turns out to be a disappointment.
Let's just face a simple fact: an AI that is on equal terms with a human does not exist nor will it exist in the near future, especially (as some pointed out already) in a low-budget niche market. As a games developer, I would rather invest my money in improved H2H accesibility (IMO, that's where the real value of CC is) than trying to improve AI and finding out afterwards that it's still a joke.
Maybe the "Rip-off Britain" campaign is beginning to bear fruit.
:
Maybe we should ask Tack if there is also a pacific transactions cybertax too?
The Australian Dollar is pretty much on the same level as the US Dollar in comparison to the Euro.
According to matrix for CCMT it is 25% more expensive to download that game from down under.
The discrepancy is evident.
I wonder what price list says if i dare to download it from:
Afghanistan
Iraq
Uskbekistan
Russia
Micronesia
Spitzbergen
Madagascar
Behind the moon (aprox. 75.000$ per download)
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