Lt_2nd
Rep: 15.6  
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 Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Appears to be a major improvement, looks like it could take some time to finish a GC, either way I am looking forward to its release and getting back into close combat |
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Therion
Rep: 27.4
votes: 4
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| schrecken wrote:
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I use way points effectively by not running my men through territory controlled by enemy machine gunners..... you may play the game differently, let's call it RAMBO style.... but suffer the consequences by having a lot of dead men.
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Err...
It happens even when fire is very inaccurate or low intensity. Also, even vehicles can stop because of being fired upon.
Why would a humvee stop when fired upon? To catch more bullets or what?
Old CC games had soldiers aborting movement only under heavy fire (and they started crawling before aborting movement). It was better. |
Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade
Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm. |
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Tejszd
Rep: 133.6
votes: 19
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Therion wrote:
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| schrecken wrote:
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I use way points effectively by not running my men through territory controlled by enemy machine gunners..... you may play the game differently, let's call it RAMBO style.... but suffer the consequences by having a lot of dead men.
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Err...
It happens even when fire is very inaccurate or low intensity. Also, even vehicles can stop because of being fired upon.
Why would a humvee stop when fired upon? To catch more bullets or what?
Old CC games had soldiers aborting movement only under heavy fire (and they started crawling before aborting movement). It was better.
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The best setting is somewhere in between the two described. The crawl of death description/name came about because in older CC titles the soldiers did keep crawling under fire until the whole squad was dead.
It would be interesting to see what the Marines version of CC is using, as I would think they would insist on the most accurate model possible for the training they do.... |
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Therion
Rep: 27.4
votes: 4
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Tejszd wrote:
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The best setting is somewhere in between the two described. The crawl of death description/name came about because in older CC titles the soldiers did keep crawling under fire until the whole squad was dead.
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That's the AI problem. IMO the best option would be a "force move" command, where the squad would run until a morale failure. |
Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade
Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm. |
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pvt_Grunt
Rep: 99.7
votes: 5
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Remake? |
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| jscusmc69 wrote:
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Marines NEVER retreat they ADVANCE in a different direction!!
jscusmc69 RVN
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LOL - Well said!
There was a thread long ago about family members who served in WW2, some great stories came out |
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ANZAC_Tack
Rep: 22.3
votes: 1
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: |
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the last "beta" i noticed sherman tanks refusing to close on enemy infantry within approx 50m,issuing same line'under fire' style command, and sit there, reversing orders countermanded,if not blatentely refused! i lost only a handfull of tanks because of this in months/hundrens of hours playing, but still it happened.
like shrecky said, u have to adjust your game playing, i had to ajust masively when i went from CCIII to CCV,everything acted slightly different(it looked the same,some same maps from GJS where in CCIII WF mod,just all soldiers/tanks/guns approx 20% larger,sounds/explosions also changed. CCIII was more "rambo" but higher casualties.
in a previous beta they where 'baby girls', ducking on sight of any enemy,and doing the 'crawl of death' cowering back to whence they came(if within 30m) or to cover...sort of like a human would...but it was tweaked to just 'girlies' in last beta. i did grumble and moan about this,but accepted it was balanced in the end. |
espree de corp |
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squadleader_id
Rep: 53.2
votes: 7
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| I hope at least the 'girlie soldiers' will crawl or retreat back to cover by themselves. Aborting movement and stopping in the open like in CoI and CCMT is worse than the 'crawl of death'. |
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Sapa
Rep: 76.3
votes: 8
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| squadleader_id wrote:
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I hope at least the 'girlie soldiers' will crawl or retreat back to cover by themselves. Aborting movement and stopping in the open like in CoI and CCMT is worse than the 'crawl of death'.
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It feels like this new change is destroying all of the joy with a great game update, but who am i to complain..i am just a swede 
Mats |
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Therion
Rep: 27.4
votes: 4
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I wish someone would make a patch that woul remove it from CCMT... |
Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade
Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm. |
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Flamethrower
Rep: 11.5
votes: 2
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| squadleader_id wrote:
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I hope at least the 'girlie soldiers' will crawl or retreat back to cover by themselves. Aborting movement and stopping in the open like in CoI and CCMT is worse than the 'crawl of death'.
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I have to disagree, the feature that causes aborted movement, in general is caused by sending units to do something they shouldn't/wouldn't, and IMHO is an improvement - it makes gameplay more demanding and more realistic - command radius is more important than before |
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schrecken
Rep: 195
votes: 15
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote:
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I wish someone would make a patch that woul remove it from CCMT...
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You can't patch the user.
It's simple... If you run out into the open waving your arms in the air then you're going to get shot out.
No body does that , except Russians with Komisars behind them... but my readings on that support the huge number of Russian POW's that went to ground rather than be shot ... I don't know why they did that, I'd choose death before dishonour. |
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Therion
Rep: 27.4
votes: 4
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Again, there's a difference between going down under inaccurate enemy fire and between going down when a burst from enemy MG42 mows down a few soldiers.
In previous CC games, soldiers aborted movement when fire was too much. Now they abort movement under any fire.
Also, why the hell are vehicles stopping under fire? Humvee stopping under fire begs for an RPG and tanks stopping during overrunning because of fire are even worse. |
Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade
Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm. |
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flick
Rep: 17.6
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| squadleader_id wrote:
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I hope at least the 'girlie soldiers' will crawl or retreat back to cover by themselves. Aborting movement and stopping in the open like in CoI and CCMT is worse than the 'crawl of death'.
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Won't that mean you have to click new commands, over and over again, as you get fired upon? |
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squadleader_id
Rep: 53.2
votes: 7
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| Flamethrower wrote:
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| squadleader_id wrote:
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I hope at least the 'girlie soldiers' will crawl or retreat back to cover by themselves. Aborting movement and stopping in the open like in CoI and CCMT is worse than the 'crawl of death'.
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I have to disagree, the feature that causes aborted movement, in general is caused by sending units to do something they shouldn't/wouldn't, and IMHO is an improvement - it makes gameplay more demanding and more realistic - command radius is more important than before
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Well, aborting movement and retreating back to cover is realistic...but aborting movement all together so that you have to give 'girlie squads' new movement orders (sometimes over and over) is just bad game design and just adds unneeded micromanagement!
Any way you put it it's bad game design...and should never have been implemented in the first place. |
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squadleader_id
Rep: 53.2
votes: 7
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| flick wrote:
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| squadleader_id wrote:
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I hope at least the 'girlie soldiers' will crawl or retreat back to cover by themselves. Aborting movement and stopping in the open like in CoI and CCMT is worse than the 'crawl of death'.
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Won't that mean you have to click new commands, over and over again, as you get fired upon?
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That's right! Exactly! 
Great game design, eh? And a really neat feature 
Why bother fixing the the enemy AI? Just make the game harder to play for players...make them have to click more and micromanage things...brilliant!  |
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schrecken
Rep: 195
votes: 15
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: |
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If your men get caught in the open they generally try and save their lives despite their commander ordering them to stand up and be shot.
If fired upon they will at first go to ground and then seek cover... usually successfully.... they will also retun fire !
If you want to keep ordering them to get up and run you may need to re-issue orders a couple of times.
This is ultimately a fault on the part of the player.
CC is not a FPS with 10 health points and health/powerups.
CC has a psychological model each of the soldiers conform to... you (the player) are not in remote control of each and every man like a FPS.
You get to issue orders and your men seek to carry them out..... if your orders are erroneous the men will disobey. |
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squadleader_id
Rep: 53.2
votes: 7
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Therion wrote:
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Again, there's a difference between going down under inaccurate enemy fire and between going down when a burst from enemy MG42 mows down a few soldiers.
In previous CC games, soldiers aborted movement when fire was too much. Now they abort movement under any fire.
Also, why the hell are vehicles stopping under fire? Humvee stopping under fire begs for an RPG and tanks stopping during overrunning because of fire are even worse.
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Agreed...I posted something like this on this thread.
The old engine/version handles this more realistically...and makes for better gameplay.
With this new 'girlie soldier' enhancement the waypoints feature only works if you're manouvering units in friendly territory far away from the enemy. If you send units into enemy territory...grab your mouse tightly and herd them slowly forward with multiple mouse clicks... |
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squadleader_id
Rep: 53.2
votes: 7
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| schrecken wrote:
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If your men get caught in the open they generally try and save their lives despite their commander ordering them to stand up and be shot.
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Squads/vehicles have inherent squad leaders.
In the old engine if the squad leader is wounded or killed...squads will abort order. More realistic and better for gameplay.
Squad leaders makes battlefield decisions too...they don't radio in to ask for new orders every time they get shot at
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If fired upon they will at first go to ground and then seek cover... usually successfully.... they will also retun fire !
If you want to keep ordering them to get up and run you may need to re-issue orders a couple of times.
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Like I said before...old engine does this too...but only if the fire is very intense or the squad/vehicle loose their squad leaders.
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This is ultimately a fault on the part of the player.
CC is not a FPS with 10 health points and health/powerups.
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I think most of us know this...most of us played the CC series from the days of CC1. We know CC isn't Company of Heroes or Blitzkrieg (why use FPS analogy When there's plenty of mainstream WW2 RTS to compare CC to?)
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CC has a psychological model each of the soldiers conform to... you (the player) are not in remote control of each and every man like a FPS.
You get to issue orders and your men seek to carry them out..... if your orders are erroneous the men will disobey.
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Really?...I didn't know that! Cool features! /*sarcasm mode ON*/ |
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Tejszd
Rep: 133.6
votes: 19
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| I guess we'll have to see what the game is like once it is released.... |
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QM
Rep: 49.4
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Tejszd wrote:
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I guess we'll have to see what the game is like once it is released....
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Well I for one cant wait to give it a run round the block a few times, looking forward to it. |
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