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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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Pzt_Kevin_dtn

Rep: 10.9


PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: The troops will not move bullets are flying. Reply with quote

Admin info (Stalky) This topic has on request from users been split into a own thread. It orinaly was in the "kill rates are to high thread"

I've played about a dozen battles h2h and another dozen vs the AI and I do NOT think the kill ratio is higher.

Though my frustration is the inability to assault. The troops will not move bullets are flying.
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Pzt_Mac

Rep: 3.4


PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Right you are, Kevin. It can get quite frustrating having to give the same order over and over and over and over and over again to a unit. Once someone hears gunshots in their direction, you will need to micromanage your units to get them to move, potentially having to click the "move fast" option repeatedly.
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Pzt_Kevin_dtn wrote:
I've played about a dozen battles h2h and another dozen vs the AI and I do NOT think the kill ratio is higher.

Though my frustration is the inability to assault. The troops will not move bullets are flying.


Pzt_Mac wrote:
Right you are, Kevin. It can get quite frustrating having to give the same order over and over and over and over and over again to a unit. Once someone hears gunshots in their direction, you will need to micromanage your units to get them to move, potentially having to click the "move fast" option repeatedly.


Hmm...did I hear someone utter the taboo words?
Are we talking about the "Girlie Soldiers"(TM) ? Wink
If you missed the previous 'discussions'...do a forum Keywords search: "girlie soldiers".
Oh, and just be ready to take usual barrage of Flamethrower's insults and name calling Very Happy
The S3T guys might be more open to discuss this "new AI enhancement/feature" since WAR is released already...but maybe not Smile
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: Reply with quote

you've seen the videos...i can assault successfully

change your style

Don't be welded yo old habits
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: Reply with quote

schrecken wrote:
you've seen the videos...i can assault successfully

change your style

Don't be welded yo old habits


Here we go again Smile

Shouldn't new discussion about GS(TM) be moved to a new thread? Wink

The GS(TM) AI isn't too bad when applied to line or green troops...they get shot at...they duck...and try to find cover (this is good BTW, better than the crawl of death)...I'm fine with this. But the CC battlefield isn't populated with line/green troops only, right?

Assault Troops for example are now handicapped by the GS(TM) AI. CMIIW...but their job was to assault the enemy, rush enemy positions and engage them with heavy close quarters weapons (sometimes taking heavy casualties in the process). Now Assault Troops are no different to line infantry...send them on assaults...and they hit the ground and start looking for cover...like girls Smile

Even line infantry should have some chance to make successful assaults without automatically ducking for cover when fired at. Like I posted before...in the classic CC versions...squads/teams only abort movement and go to ground when:
- Their Squad Leader is KIA
- Heavy casualties
- Pinned down by heavy enemy fire

Having vehicles abort movement when fired upon is also ridiculous...especially after you spend precious time designating multiple waypoint spots...when vehicles abort movement...the waypoints are wiped out.
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Dauphin

Rep: 12.2
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't need to be fire at to be stuck

Imagine the situation a street at the end an exit point. How nice !!
On that very point an enemy vehicle with no gas and no more ammunitions. Great an easy task !!! (See the Map Trois vierges at the bottom right)

There are houses all along the street on both sides, so that's an easy job to go from one house to another

I had 3 teams 2 platoon leaders & 1 rifle team all well with a good morale
One group took the left side of the street while the other took the right one.

They moved along fine with caution.....until they were at 20 meters from the vehicle.
They suddendly refused to move and instead started to shoot.
The vehicle did not shoot
It was just a practice for them to empty their rifles.
I tried to move the units while they had bullets....no way not even crawling outside the zone

You just feel really stupid for missing an easy job because they won't move
And even more sorry because they just kiled one man inside the vehicle. Embarassed
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I encountered a similar thing when playing CCMT.


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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Pzt_Kevin_dtn

Rep: 10.9


PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: Reply with quote

schrecken wrote:
you've seen the videos...i can assault successfully

change your style

Don't be welded yo old habits


I'm sorry Schreck but you are wrong.

I use Suppression fire, smoke, and multiunit assault and they all look at each other like the other should charge first.

It all boils down to a gun fight now. Line em up across from each other like during the Napoleanic era and fire away. If a BG attacks into a map versus an equal or better opposing BG forget about attempting to manuever and make a concentrated assault. No one will charge. It just turns into a crawling match.
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other thread...CSO_Linebacker reported that he successfully ordered several squads of AB troops to charge across open ground at Shreckie's MG positions...and they did not go to ground even after the MGs fired on them. After reading that, I thought the GS(TM) AI was removed/fixed...I guess I assumed wrong Sad
Were you guys playing a different build of WAR? Smile
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: Reply with quote

My troops drop to the ground too.
In some cases they enemy is miles away but because of the few shots they got off my troops dont go where I want them to.
sometimes even after 8/10 times of ordering them to move.
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Digs

Rep: 56.7
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: The troops will not move bullets are flying. Reply with quote

Does turning on 'always obey orders' counter this?.
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Senior_Drill

Rep: 9.7
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: The troops will not move bullets are flying. Reply with quote

It does to an extent.  If they take too many casualties their morale will plummet and they will break and desert or surrender, or they get completely wiped out following what would be considered insane orders. But somedays you do get to eat the bear and over run the objective with only a few casualties.  Unfortunately, the setting is global for all units on that side for the entire battle (or operation or campaign);  one can't choose a time and place for selected units to have that as a local attribute.

The AI gets around this tendency to drop when shot at by making a series of short (one to two element tiles or 10 to 20 meters) at a time, goes to ground and then quickly moves fast again.  It doesn't have a clicking finger that can get tired.  But it can be replicated at the cost of having to mico-manage the assault while ignoring the rest of the battlefield.

On the old CSO forums there was a suggestion to add an Assault order to the menu that basically is "Always obey orders", that applies only to a given unit.  This would allow for human wave assaults, Banzi charges and take the hill at all costs type attacks.  Hopefully, we will see that one day in CC6 and updates to WaR and TLD.


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: The troops will not move bullets are flying. Reply with quote

The Blood posted over at the Matrix forum that 'Girlie Soldiers AI (TM)' has been fixed to an extent in the CCTLD beta patches.
You will still need to make annoying short move fast hops (below 30-40m) for assaults to be successful...and the "unit won't move when going to ground 30m from the enemy bug" was fixed.
Hopefully the long awaited CCWAR patch will incorporate this much needed fix.
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