Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: How can you say it is easy to mod!?
Yes i can open with Excell and look at things...
In CC 5 i could open all the adbs with QClone, i could change the forcepool with BG Edit (how in hell can i change the forcepool in WaR without spending months on it?), i could change the sprite on soldiers with SLDcolour, i could with a little work make a new stratmap and Stratedit made the work
Thankyou god, i can still use XTank, CC3 hack and Gadgetmunger!
Maybe some people will get mad on me but i dont agree that WaR is easy to mod, yet...
any known moder can second u - WaR is not modder friendly....
and no known modder will mod WaR cause it has big flaws that no modder can fix w/o having the CC code.
S3T can fix WaR but looks they don;t understand what;s wrong.
My solution - stick to CC5 as it's much better than CC:WaR .
Changing the support is nice,
The workbook in confusing.
I havent played it since the first week,no sense till the patch comes out.
but then I like GC's not single battles.
Yes i understand, but because everything could be changed by notepad it doesent mean that it is easier? right??
yeah, and f.e. data tweaking, QClone doesn't allow one to save file if u made some nasty mistake in some cell - Excel/Worpad will allow, so one will spend some hours checking everything he made searching for mistake after CC didn't load/crashed.
sapa, did u check FPs with excel/wordpad? if u didn't, try it - that's where the most funny thing comes from .
Yes i did Its one of the reasons i dont have freetime to make any mod for WaR. What you can do with BGEdit in an hour it will take you days to do in Excell and as you said..imagine if you make one misstake!!!
If you sell a game and says it is modfriendly and that means you can look at the Base files but it is an huge work to change them, well i will close the mouth from now on...
When i think of a modfrienly game i see tools in the game for the buyer to use to make their "own" game, but i suppose i am wrong then
Thes files you refer to were never editable when (CC5 was) released.
We have made them editable without a third party addon.
BGEDIt, Sldcolor etc are not tools released with the (CC5) game.
Not only is the release (of WaR) editable by anyone straigt out of the box but more features are editable/moddable now than ever before.
This is not to denegrate existing 3rd party tools... most are very worthy.. i can only encourage more people to take up this challenge... Sapa, Dima?
And what obvious conclusion should have been drawn from that?
If you know there was just a few tool makers left, WHY did you change the files into new formats… Shouldn’t one try to keep all files basically the same or similar to old CC so all the old tools either work with WaR or they are just in need of a easy tweak or a new ini file to work with WaR???
schrecken wrote:
This is not to denegrate existing 3rd party tools... most are very worthy.. i can only encourage more people to take up this challenge... Sapa, Dima?
All tools are very worthy, and they are incredible much better then refering to the note pad... Or make strat edit manualy... ..with the note pad.... ..and 700 images..
So what to do? Either:
1) Sapa/Dima take Schreckys challenge, sign up for a 2 year programming course, and fix new CC mod tools, as the old CC mod tools have been made obsolete, due to mod friendly intentions by the current developer...
2) Or Schrecky and the developer should take the CC’s communitys challenge, and make WaR mod friendly?
Edit spelling
Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Seems like 2 people have been able to do some modding to WAR already.
Firefox and kojusoki1 (sorry I havent tried either mod)
So it's not impossible,I don't know who kojusoki1 is but we all know Firefox has modded everysingle thing when it comes to CC.
But for someone like me who just now wants to create his own BG FP or whatever it's a huge learning curve with no clear cut information as to how it works.
I think if the wording of the headers in workbook could better reflect how each collum reflects to other collums would make it much easier.
I.E.
The *Team.adb Class number of the teams in the Battle Group. Teams 1 through 5 will show in the Battle Group Screen as 1st Platoon, Team 6 through 10 as 2nd Platoon and Teams 11 through 15 as the Support Platoon.
Thats from the BGroup Team 1Type of the workbook
The # is set at 0
If you look at the axs Teams page it lists 0 as a Command team (If I read that correctly)
If you then go to FPools page and look at Team 1Class it says
Which nation? -1 = NONE, 0 = USA, 1 = RUSSIA, 2 = COMMONWEALTH, 3 = FRANCE, 4 = POLAND, 5 = GERMANY, 6 = ITALY, 7 = JAPAN Range = 0 - 7
The #is set at 2
It just doesnt make sense to me
The workbook doesnt tell you where to go to change the amount of teams you want in the FP for that team.
One page says Team Type another page says Team Class
When you look at the axs page it lists Class 0 as a command Team,when you look at the Vehicles page it lists Class 0 as being Panzer II (unused)
On the weapons page it lists Class 0 as Melee
Even if you didnt use the #0 say you choose 10 or 20,how do you know what your choosing?
And then you have to figure out how to save it and then move it into the game........right?
The workbook doesnt edit stright to the game,correct?
Thes files you refer to were never editable when (CC5 was) released.
We have made them editable without a third party addon.
BGEDIt, Sldcolor etc are not tools released with the (CC5) game.
Not only is the release (of WaR) editable by anyone straigt out of the box but more features are editable/moddable now than ever before.
This is not to denegrate existing 3rd party tools... most are very worthy.. i can only encourage more people to take up this challenge... Sapa, Dima?
And what’s obvious conclusion should have been drawn from that?
If you know there was just a few tool makers left, WHY did you change the files into new formats… Shouldn’t one try to keep all files basically the same or similar to old CC so all the old tools either work with WaR or they are just in need of a easy tweak or a new ini file to work with WaR???
schrecken wrote:
This is not to denegrate existing 3rd party tools... most are very worthy.. i can only encourage more people to take up this challenge... Sapa, Dima?
All tools are very worthy, and they are incredible much better then refering to the note pad... Or make strat edit manualy... ..with the note pad.... ..and 700 images..
So what to do? Either:
1) Sapa/Dima take Schreckys challenge, sign up for a 2 year programming course, and fix new CC mod tools, as the old CC mod tools have been made obsolete, due to mod friendly intentions by the current developer...
2) Or Schrecky and the developer should take the CC’s communitys challenge, and make WaR mod friendly?
For me, all these things has really got me thinking of the future for Close Combat. What can a updated version off CC5 bring after this? nothing for me i beleive..
Stalky is right changing the game to not be compatable with the tools CC had was wrong.
I like Sapas post about editing the Soldier colors,how/what does each # do?
What do you just edit/save/load each time untill you like what you see?
GL with that one.
I'm happy the game was done but not happy with this idea and the fact that it's been out since Oct.28th and you still can't play a GC.
How the testers missed the Empty BG bug is beyond me.
Lets not forget there is also a Campaign text file that needs further explaining.
It might not be the easiest but as Platoon_michael pointed it can be done.
Keep using BGEDIt and convert your CC5 data files to WAR format after. This is a work around as there is no WAR tool that does the same thing as BGEdit.
– Open the exported txt version of the file in Excel
– Select all data and then sort by class, date and difficulty (by default each sort item should ascending and header row should be selected)
– Select column E (Difficulty), then cut and then Insert Cut Cells into column D
– Scroll row 6877 (should be class 55, boot camp BG’s which are now in a separate file) and press shift, Ctrl and End together to select all data from class 55 to the end of the file, then Delete shift cells left.
– Where each Class/BG starts insert a row
– Below each blank inserted row Select the class #, BG name and nationality # (single row), then Cut and then Paste into the blank row in column D (Difficulty)
– Edit BG Nationality in Column F for the Side = 0 (Allied) or 1 (Axis) if required
– Write down the last BG number in the mod, usually 54
– Go to cell D1, enter the highest class number + 1 in to the cell
– Go to cell E1 and delete the column titles in row 1 to cell CQ1
– Select columns A (Class), B (Name) and C (Nationality) and then Delete shift cells left
– Delete columns AQ to CN
– Save as fpool.txt
Keep using SLDcolour on the CC5.exe and then use Mafi’s RTBtool (v2.24 or higher) to export the data to a text file to use in WAR. This is a work around as there is no WAR tool that does the same thing as SLDcolour.
Unfortunately you can NOT keep using Stratedit and there is no easy way to do the strat map work. It has been done but it is a big manual process....
Don't forget the user-friendly BTDEdit is also incompatible...out of the box you have to manually enter VL coordinates and values in the "new format" mapxxx.btd files.
Thanks to Mafi’s RTBtool (v2.24 or higher)...you can now still use BTDEdit to create "old format" BTDs...then convert them to CCWAR txt format using RTBtool.
Mind you both the BTD conversion and Soldier Color importer modules for RTBtool were added by Mafi after requests from modders...not from S3T recommendations. S3T? They prefer to manually edit txt files (some of them with a huge array of numbers and coordinates data) it seems
S3T didn't even consider making a nice user-friendly mod installer tool...good thing Bernd Nowak of CCStarter fame quickly stepped up with CCWARInstaller.
BTW, the "new" FP file...why change it? It wasn't broken and we had a nice tool in BGEdit.
Exporting them to txt is fine...but why change the format?
Wee are not in the business of making modding tools.
120% of resources a put into game production.
For the first time many things are now editable/moddable that never were previously.
JUST THE CHANGES TO MAKE cc COMPATIBLE WITH MODERN SYSTEMS MADE IN INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE TOOLS... eg. changed hex offsets for various functions.
If we made it compatible it would be the same, so not worth building.
Making more maps available made it incompatible with the old tools.
Making more nationalities made it incompatible with the old tools.
Making more BG's available made it incompatible with the old tools.
We have kept map compatibility for the first time in a CC release.... CC5 maps will work in WaR.
When was the last new tool made for CC... thinking , thinking.... Compatibility with old tools was not important because the support was waning.
We are not looking back but looking ahead to the future.
If the support is there then new tools will be made if not, then CC's death is prolonged a little longer by the life support we have administered to it.
You guys whine no matter what the circumstance.
There was an enhancement list posted on this site... we covered most of it.... If we kept compatibility with old tools it would have covered no enhancements but just been a graphics mod..... and then you would have had something to whine about... I would have done so alongside you!!!!!!
New enhanced features were important.
Bernd's is the newest tool and Mafi has updated his tools ... all because of WaR.
Non here talks about the new modeble things added in WaR, so if you want to present that angle, go a head nothing to "debate" there.
This thread is about a complained over how easy WaR is to mod. Non seem to agree it is easy moded. (please read the topic headline and plz read our post one more time) IE: We say WaR isn’t easy to mod, its time-consuming and complicated compared to CC5… And who with some CC mod experiance can disagree to that?
What you say that you was forced to take the file into new formats:
About the adb file had to be made txt due to changes, is not correct is it.
I meen, If we go back to CC2 they was in txt format, and changed to adb in CC3. The data files origin is easy to see, they go back to then.
When Atomic have made new ideas they just incorporate in the exciting old data files, they have JUST ADDED new rows as they needed it, and as things isnt used anymore they just left em old unused lines in the files not even bothered to removed em. So when we look at the CC5 files we see things from CC3 in em and from CC4 in em that are no longer used. And when we look at CC4 we see how they added rows to meet the new ideas, same with CC5, they added things, all in the same data files. And also in CC5 adb we see the unused parts still leftover from CC4 etc. We can fine this also in teams and in vehicle files. SIMPLY SPEAKING, NO you was NOT forced to make new file format for WaR, the WaR data file system is a twin of CC5, and less changes in CC5 -> WaR then compared CC3->CC4 or CC4->CC5, simply rows added or rows not used...
TO have the data files still in adb would have made it easier to convert the BGedit, as not much had changed from CC5 force pool -> WaR forcepool.
Look at Qclone, it only needed is a new ini file and it can handle shanges from one version to another. We cant use that simple system due to adb is now txt...
About btd, i cant image why waste time on remake that system into txt, it worked in CC4, CC5 why make it txt?
Quote:
We have kept map compatibility for the first time in a CC release.... CC5 maps will work in WaR.
?You lost me there Schrecky, the CC3 maps can be used in CC4, and CC5 maps can be used in CC4, and CC4 maps can be used in CC5, and the CC5 maps can be used in CC3 etc.. One need just the elements file, and that is not a problem. And btw, you fined many mods out there that proves that.
Anyway, it don’t matter, as you have made the decision and carried em out anyway.
So here we are without a possibility of easy conversion of our tools.
Hope some pickup BGedit and make the changes anyway, but I can just hope.
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