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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:30 am Post subject: Interesting find (registry, AI level, Girlie-Soldiers[TM])! Reply with quote

Jace11 posted this over at CSO:
http://www.closecombatonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14779

Quote:
I've been mournful of the CC5 AI for years... the way it sends squads crawling to the VLs and you can just pick em off.

Anyway, I was looking at values in the CC5 registry where resolution values, install location are kept..

There are two directorys in HKEY/LOCAL MACHINE/SSI/CLOSE COMBAT 5/5.00

and 5.01

In both there is DiffLevel value, I have not noticed this before and not edited it..

The value in 5.00 was 03 00 00 00

In the 5.01 directory it was 00 00 00 00

As my game is patched to 5.01 then this value is being used I think.

Btw, These values are not force strength eg line / recruit etc as they are further down in the registry as StrengthO and StrengthP I think..

I changed the DiffLevel to 03 00 00 00 and tried the game, now it may be my imagination, but my troops seemed to get suppressed quicker and I started to lose troops to morale failure more often. Also the AI seemed to react quicker with smoke and return fire. Previously the AI would keep sneaking around and take several minutes to return fire on an MG or something that was causing it to take losses. Now it seems to me the AI is slightly quicker especially in the use of smoke. It will plop mortar smoke right outside your MG position and on the street to cover its troops etc.

All this may be my imagination....

Anyone tampered with this value before or know what it does / how high a value you can use it or maybe it really does nothing at all....???
Reply With Quote


Very interesting find!
After trying it out...I also found the game (vs AI) to be slightly harder.
The AI seems to be more active (moving, attacking, defending, firing) and reacts faster. The AI still can't really attack on offense...but on defense the AI's quite lethal.
Try it out...you will beat the AI...but you will lose more men than usual...and most battles will be much tougher.

And what's most interesting...this registry editing experiment introduces the Girlie-Soldiers[TM] to (original) CC5!!! You will find your men will duck more often when shot at...and they will abort movement a lot when under fire.

Just out of curiosity...I edited the WAR registry for DiffLevel...but so far still can't get rid of the Girlie-Soldiers AI. More experimentation needed!
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Sapa

Rep: 76.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting!! Now we could get girly soldiers into CC5 and destroy that game too Razz Razz Razz Smile

Mats
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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try this. Still just playing the AI, so I really need a challenge! Rolling Eyes


"When the tough gets going, I run to live to run another day..."

"Is this trip really necessary?"
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

CC5 registry entries:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Mattel Interactive\Close Combat\5.01

CC4 registry entries:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Strategic Simulations Inc.\Close Combat\4.00

CCWAR registry entries:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Strategy 3 Tactics\Close Combat\45

The default for CC5 ver 5.00, CC4 and CCWAR for DIFFLEVEL binary value is 03 00 00 00
And for CC5 patched (ver 5.01) the value is 00 00 00 00.

I couldn't get the Girlie Soldiers AI to go away by setting CCWAR DIFFLEVEL value to 00 00 00 00 Sad
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Jace10

Rep: 1.5


PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Found my old login and pass for CCSeries...

So squadleader...

Are you saying you have tried the reg edit and see a difference...?
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mooxe

Rep: 221.7
votes: 25


PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that the commanders attributes affect how the AI attacks. There are vastly different AI commanders in the game.


Join Discord for technical support and online games.
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There are vastly different AI commanders in the game.



shhhhhh!
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

BG Commander attributes? Yup...of course.
But I've never seen Girlie-Soldiers(TM) AI behaviour show up on stock CC5 before this registry edit...and the Commander Attributes in the BG.adbs are unchanged.
The registry edit affects the AI of the individual teams/squads.

From my testing...the registry edit transforms the CC5 PC AI to a tougher entity (kinda reminds me of the 'enhanced AI' in CCWAR...which is also set to 03 00 00 00 Wink)...but sadly it introduces the Girlie-Soldiers(TM) AI to the mix Sad
At least the CC5 GS(TM) AI isn't as girlish as it is in CCWAR Very Happy


Last edited by squadleader_id on Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^
Having a blast playing vs AI with this registry editing find (thanks, Jace10!)!
Playing as attacker is now very tough (without any vetmod or other adb mods).
The AI on defense with sneaky counterattacks to win back VLs, the bloodier close quarters battles, the improved commander influence on nearby teams, the active (though sporadic) manouvers by the AI. Things that I thought were AI improvements in CCWAR...they were hidden away in just one entry of the CC5 registry!
This is how CC5 should have been configured out of the box...dunno why the registry settings were modified with the patch...so we ended up playing the brain-dead AI for years.
I guess H2H players should stick with the original (patched registry settings)...but for those who still enjoy playing vs AI...edit your registry and give it a try!

I've only tested the setting briefly (a few battles) in SDK, SOC and SDKDK...no huge improvement on PJs 'enhanced' AI settings...but the close quarters fighting is at least twice as intense and brutal with the registry edit.
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Jace10

Rep: 1.5


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for feedback...

Yeah I know about Aggressiveness, Tactics etc of Commanders, can be edited in BGroup.adb i think.

Have you tried any values higher than 03 00 00 00 ?? Maybe it can be pushed further... shame we can't ask anyone who actually knows what it does and what its limits are, though maybe members of the matrix games WaR team will have that information..?

I've tried 04 00 00 00, I think its still working.. Rolling Eyes
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flick

Rep: 17.6


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

So for the non-experts here, this improves the AI but also turns the AI into Girly soldiers?

Can we get this as a vetmod/patch?
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salhexe

Rep: 70.1
votes: 6


PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience:
Playing mod where Ai is attacker:
- with original exe and no adb change = better
- with original exe and only sai change in adb = even better
- with original exe and changing sai and upgrade path (my Omaha germ vet) = very good
- my S vetmod with exe for to play = there are no appreciable immediate results have extended the test

Smile
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: Reply with quote

*bump*

Any other reports of success at reanimating the braindead CC5 AI? Wink
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Jace10 wrote:
Thanks for feedback...

Yeah I know about Aggressiveness, Tactics etc of Commanders, can be edited in BGroup.adb i think.

Have you tried any values higher than 03 00 00 00 ?? Maybe it can be pushed further... shame we can't ask anyone who actually knows what it does and what its limits are, though maybe members of the matrix games WaR team will have that information..?

I've tried 04 00 00 00, I think its still working.. Rolling Eyes


Well, why doesn't someone try Arrow FF FF FF FF and lets see Idea
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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:31 am Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried it for TRSM, allies vs. German AI, using the same tactics and set-ups as I done before:
-At Sword Beach I didn't get of the beach the first turn, It has taken me 1,5 day to clear several beaches and at Ranville the AI even managed to capture the town during day 2. I'm at day 3 (am) and so far I've lost some 20 tanks and I don't use to loose that many of them... Crying or Very sad


"When the tough gets going, I run to live to run another day..."

"Is this trip really necessary?"
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Jace10

Rep: 1.5


PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

squadleader_id wrote:
*bump*

Any other reports of success at reanimating the braindead CC5 AI? Wink



You know I reckon I have found something else...

The reg change had a small but noticable effect for me but maybe not as noticable as it has been for other people.

Since then, I have since taken the WaR elements files and copied over element hinderance values for soldiers and vehicles to stock CCV. This seems to have had a big effect for me (though it is combined with the reg change so which is most important I don't know). The AI spent too much time crawling straight for VLs even under fire, now, while this still happens occasionally, the AI seems more free to move around the map. Its actually neally as good as WaR in terms of an AI opponent. Really enjoying playing against the AI again.
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice...keep experimenting, Jace10...looking forward to further reports from you.
BTW, have you tried the registry settings on "mods specially designed for vs AI" like SDK, SOC and SDKDK?
Also...the best proof that the registry editing does change the AI is the "girlie soldiers" behaviour (= soldiers aborting movement and ducking for cover more often)...I have never seen this in stock CC5...only after the registry editing trick.
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salhexe

Rep: 70.1
votes: 6


PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Another impression:
Ai have more easily to use its barrage or the mortars and fo. An effect here at Sword, use the barrage at the first sighting of the enemy even though there are many friendly units, a massacre! :eek2



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Jace10

Rep: 1.5


PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to the elements file, it may make sense that this affects the AI too. I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the AI must evaluate each map, paths to VLs etc on a map to map basis cause all maps are different. Movement is therefore an important part of the AI. One thing I had modded previously was the large and small hedgerow movement for

Hinderence values will affect movement speed etc, and combining this with the registry Diff Level = 3 change has yielded a tougher AI for me.

The WaR hinderence values do not differ that greatly from stock CCV though, soldier movement in and out of buildings are slower in general. Thus changing these, while still keeping the values in a realistic range, may be why I'm getting better results.

In my brief tests so far, the AI still goes for VLs but often by unusual routes. Its still easy to beat, but more of challenge.
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emmthreejonny

Rep: 0.1


PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks and I thought I was getting better at this game.
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