Regarding education, the government is just telling you they are educating your children. Most post graduation tests prove otherwise.
You can't educate someone more than he is interested in getting educated. If kids want to get educated for 2s and 3s, it's abvious that they won't get 5s and 6s on graduation tests.
Truth, be told, I believe what you mention, is the number one problem facing the education system today, at least in the USA.
The problem, is assesing fault, for this anomolie. Is it the children, the parents, the government, or ...
Why is this not really happening, in Belgium, for instance, or a couple of other dozen countries you can mention.
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:12 am Post subject: Re: Socialized Healthcare
It's the ideology that everyone needs to have an university-level education or they are subhuman whose hard work is worthless or something like that.
If employers want parents/the state to provide for their full time workers just because they don't have higher education, then a lot of kids who should have just learned some simple trade and start to work for money and started to live on their own end up in high school to which they don't have predispositions.
Then there's the whole ideology that all kids should end up on universities, despite that technical schools and vocational schools that can provide a semi-decently paid trade exist.
Also, learning/teaching methods are horribly outdated in comparison to advancements in entertainment, advertisement, etc. which makes school a lot less interesting and makes stuff more difficult to learn than it should be.
Hell, they can't even make good textbooks. Compare an average textbook with a rulebook for a roleplaying game or a wargame. Horribly outdated and unattractive. Not to mention, that I haven't seen a single textbook in my life that could serve as a sole source of knowledge for exams for its subject.
How the hell are people supposed to learn for exams if they don't even have the necessary knowledge in the fucking textbook for that subject?
What the fuck are texbooks for?
To make things more fucked, up, one can get ill for a month and then discover that there's no way of obtaining notes from other students. Then what? All the knowledge necessary should be in a textbook and the textbooks should be as clear and easy to learn from as notes from lessons.
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:43 am Post subject: Re: Socialized Healthcare
Taking in account that I've read tens of textbooks and none of them could provide me with the knowledge that a students notebook could, I can't help but to suspect that it's some kind of a conspiracy to prevent teachers from becoming outdated. After all, who needs a teacher when one can learn everything from a textbook?
Also, it's quite possible that a good textbook would be 3-6 times thinner than existing ones which would limit the incomes of their writers...
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Socialized Healthcare
Ok, i'll play along and feed the troll
Looks like someone can't tell socialism apart from totalitarianism, not really a good start.
Quote:
1. The government will pay for your birth and your death.
2. The government will pay for your secondary education and subsidize most higher education, like college, etc.
3. The government will subsidize and/or insure your mortgage payments. They will also make your payements for you, if you cannot.
4. The government will pay your medical bills when you get sick.
5. The government will provide your job, and give you money when you are unemployed. They will pay for your job training too.
6. The government will tell you what drugs you should take, and what food you should eat.
7. The government will help you find a spouse or significant other.
As far as I see it 1 is a pretty wierd complaint, since as far as i'm aware there is no "birth tax" and what are you supposed to do if someone dies penniless and alone? Leave them to rot where they fall?
2 makes perfect sense, a well educated society is a productive society. With regards to higher education, if it wasn't for govornment subsidies on tuition fees there's no way i'd be able to afford a university education. Even with them the £18,000 plus student loan repayments aren't easy to handle.
I'm no expert on insurance and mortgages so i'm leaving number 3 alone for now.
4 Is brilliant. You can't possibly appreciate the joy of free healthcare. I live in Britian and it's easily the best thing about living here.
As for 5, that'd be public sector employment, which even in a non socialist system would be police, firefighters, soldiers, civil servants and all sorts of other types that keep things running smoothly. If you think that's bad then well... I'm worried. As for unemployment benefit, it's a pretty useful way to stop the unemployed turning to crime to make ends meet or starving to death. Some people abuse it but many don't.
As for 6, I don't see much of a problem with a govornment telling you what drugs to take and food to eat. When it gets to forcing you that's another issue, but that's what a totalitarian govornment would do, and if the man is forcing pills down my throat i'd have bigger concerns than how closely their policies follow and particualr interpertation of Marxism.
7 is utter rubbish. But it is nice to see the old 1920's scare of socialists wanting to nationalize women coming back to the fore. Not heard that for a while!
8. The government will decide how many children you can have, and the size and number of pets you can keep.
9. The government will implant electroinic devices into your body, so they can keep you under 24x7 surveilance.
A. The government will censor information you receive.
Now obviously, this list could go on and on, but each of these items are occuring, in some country, somewhere, on the planet, right now
The trick, or the fun, is to identify, which country is doing what. After all, it's just a beeg UMBRELLA OF PROTECTION, right
Regards,
Stwa
Ok, 8 might have been adopted by the Maoists to control population growth, but that doesn't make it a socialist value. Pure fantasy and paranoia.
Electronic implants!? Do you honestly believe this stuff? Although govornment survaliance is nothing new, the bush administration loved it and they weren't exatly socialist.. And as for censorship, most of the media and information we recieve is skewed and often self censored.
I just hope this is all mired in sarcasm and i've got the wrong end of the stick.
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Socialized Healthcare
Hey, thanks for playing the game
But we are all friends here, so go easy on the troll comments, K
You did manage to answer some of the country stuff, so I will put those up. But I am not going to answer everything, until some other people have had a chance to guess. I will answer #1, since it is pretty difficult and its really 2 Countries instead of 1.
Also some of these there are more than one answer, but I will put the first correct answer in.
1. The government will pay for your birth and your death.Answer = Taiwan / USA (Oregon)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Socialized Healthcare
If I was living in the states I would never ever put my kids into public schools.
Most of the states white kids (and asians) are minorities in public schools. They are attacked everyday.
Private schools are landing here too. First elementary school was opened here couple of moths ago.
At the moment 10% of students (elementary school + junior high school) are immigrants in Helsinki.
In some schools even 30%.
We have also these UNESCO funded schools. 2 of my friends mothers are teaching negroes. They say that negro kids don´t learn multiplication table even when they are 14 years old So they can have those tables in tents.
One month ago, one of those UNESCO schools were seeking new principal.
Guess how many applied?
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Socialized Healthcare
Tippi you need to get a grip son, some of them "negro" kids could out math you and me! Some of them are even world leaders in their science. some of them are even world leaders! Im sorry to here that your moms friends feel that way. Maybe thats an enditement on their ability to teach or on their inability to to teach sombody whos different to them ? Either way those negro kids and all the "other" kids still need a good teacher so we dont end up with more racists in our world.
If I was living in the states I would never ever put my kids into public schools.
Most of the states white kids (and asians) are minorities in public schools. They are attacked everyday.
Man, that's seriously fuck up. Anyway, here I would never put my kids (If I would have any) into a private school. Private schools here are for kids who didn't have a chance to get into a public school and are usually full of troublemakers.
Private schools are landing here too. First elementary school was opened here couple of moths ago.
At the moment 10% of students (elementary school + junior high school) are immigrants in Helsinki.
In some schools even 30%.
God, all that nation-mixing stuff is disgusting. Reading about it makes me feel sick.
We have also these UNESCO funded schools. 2 of my friends mothers are teaching negroes. They say that negro kids don´t learn multiplication table even when they are 14 years old So they can have those tables in tents.
One month ago, one of those UNESCO schools were seeking new principal.
Guess how many applied?
Yes, one person.
Crazy stuff. So, Finland is importing uneducated savages? What's the point of doing it? What does the Finnish nation gain from it?
Tippi you need to get a grip son, some of them "negro" kids could out math you and me! Some of them are even world leaders in their science. some of them are even world leaders!
You're talking about Barrack Obama? He's not black. His mother was white. I don't get how anyone could consider him a representative of people of African descent when his black father disappeared from his life when he was 2.
Anyway, racism is a phenomena typical for multi-national mongrel states. I mean, people living in neighbourhoods based on race, choosing their friends basing on race? Building whole cultures around their race? How idiotic it is?
Maybe thats an enditement on their ability to teach or on their inability to to teach sombody whos different to them ? Either way those negro kids and all the "other" kids still need a good teacher so we dont end up with more racists in our world.
It's quite possible. From what I've read about the science of learning, our learning systems are horribly outdated and made to cater to only one specific learning style which isn't even a majority.
Anyway. My main problem is:
What the fuck are people from African countries that apparently have completely different school systems doing in Finland?
Impressed with Drill's comments. As a liberal leftie socialist type myself, I do not expect much sensible debate with Americans on the whole, but it is a mistake to generalise. Once you get past the hype, media, and vested interests, I have found that Americans seem to be in favour in principle of having decent health care for all.
There is no 'free' healthcare anywhere on the planet. Someone pays for it. I pay for it out of taxation, and have no objection to that, even if it helps towards paying for someone else's treatment. The flip side of that, is that someone else is also paying for my treatment. The sum of that is that everyone is paying for everyone's treatment.
Bear in mind that the only way you are going to get universal services is through taxation. If you leave it to individuals, they will only pay for what they want, and by extension, the devil take the hindmost. The current (or soon to be previous) situation in the USA regarding healthcare seems to be a good example of that, unless we are to believe that everyone is able to get decent healthcare?
As to the argument that there isn't enough money for healthcare? Baloney. As already pointed out, trillions have been spent on Iraq and continue to be spent on Afghanistan, so don't insult me with that argument.
There seems to be this misguided attitude that what is good for me is good for all. If paying no tax is good for me, then it must be good for everyone. It is a specious argument. I have no problem understanding why people do not want to pay tax. It leaves you with more money. It's just human nature, but I do not think you need to have more than minimal intelligence to work out the consequences of nobody paying tax. The issue is about what you want and how much you are prepared to pay to get it. The 'social' issues arise when it comes to dealing with your attitude to how your money is spent on other people. Americans seem to resent this more than most. That is certainly the impression I get.
On the other hand, 'free' healthcare for me is good for all. 'Free' Schools for me is good for all, so it is not the principle that is broken, but as with just about anything, it is more about how it is applied.
To some degree, I see the Americans now being faced with the challange or consequence of their own ideologies. The enterprise culture does not provide social equanimity, and that is now coming home to roost. This must confuse and alarm those dedicated to the cause. Now it is down to the balance of care, that is how much do you care (about the circumstances of your fellow citizens)? People are starting to realise that business is not about social welfare, but making money for the owners and shareholders. The question is what (if anything) is anyone going to do about it?
Our Mrs Thatcher illustrated one of the lies, when she stated that enabling the wealthy to get wealthier would lead to social benefits becasue the extra wealth would 'trickle down' to everyone. What a joke! They did what human nature drove them to do, and keep all the extra wealth for themselves. The other lie is that becasue 'I' can do it, then everyone can do it. Opportunity does not guarantee equanimity either. The millionaire who started in penury claims that because he can do it, so can anyone. It's bullshit. So why isn't everyone who tries to become a millionaire a millionaire? The reasons are pretty obvious, but it merely demonstrates the lie.
For decades, the American psyche has been brainwashed and hoodwinked by people who are the very antithesis of socialism, in it's widest and least political sense, achieving extremes in such phrases as "Reds under the bed". It has developed into a paranoia. Americans seem to be the most paranoid people around, and paranoia prevents objective, logical thinking. This was illustrated by a street interview I saw when an American woman jumped up and down screaming (literally) that she refuses to accept an approach to healthcare such as the NHS because it was 'Communist'. Talk about ignorance! Breathtaking. Yet these are the kinds of attitudes that drive many Americans it seems to me.
I accept that I am not an American, and that I probably do not understand in every particular. Mea culpa. However, you can argue and rationalise yourselves into a hole if you are determined and ignorant enough. Sometimes, a simple perspective can illustrate simple truths. The devil is then in the detail. If a Nation is unable to provide decent healthcare for all it's citizens, then what does that say about the Nation? Any Nation, not just the USA. Argue and rationalise all you like. The truth is still there. Face it, or avoid it. Thankfully, America has a President who is prepared to face it. Once decent healthcare for all has been established for a while, I would not be surprised for the attitude to change to one of "how the heel did we never do this before", and any suggestion of retruning to the previous situation met with "over my dead body".
Anyway. My main problem is:
What the fuck are people from African countries that apparently have completely different school systems doing in Finland?
Using our welfare system. They are bums.
Yesterday I met my friend and her mother. She said that everyday white women teachers are called: white whore, whore, filthy whore etc.. The list goes on and on. It is disgusting.
And one problem is that the Finnish teachers are briefed to teach as slow as the most retarded kid learns. And every time it is the negro kid.
According to IQ and the Wealth of Nations- book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations) average African IQ is 70 (In Finland people with lower than 70 IQ are considered retarded).
P.S. Stumpy: What did you meant by putting the word Negro as "Negro" ?
In USA black people can use one of the three options on census: African-American, Black, or Negro.
Word Negro iz no racis youknowimsaying?
Anyway. My main problem is:
What the fuck are people from African countries that apparently have completely different school systems doing in Finland?
Using our welfare system. They are bums.
I meant how did they get there? Why were they allowed to get there?
Here, the main way to be allowed to stay here is to marry a local. It makes staying there easier than in western European countries, but it filters out some undesirables (people with IQ of 70, for example) and prevents creation of second-generation immigrants.
Yesterday I met my friend and her mother. She said that everyday white women teachers are called: white whore, whore, filthy whore etc.. The list goes on and on. It is disgusting.
And one problem is that the Finnish teachers are briefed to teach as slow as the most retarded kid learns. And every time it is the negro kid.
According to IQ and the Wealth of Nations- book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations) average African IQ is 70 (In Finland people with lower than 70 IQ are considered retarded).
Yeah. One thing that some people can't get is that there are better and worse countries. If someone comes from a retarded country with extreme violence and corruption and a degenerate culture, it's hard to expect him to be a valuable addition to society. Which is why people from some countries shouldn't be let in.
They flew here and accidentally lost their passports when they arrived here and claimed that they are refugees.
So we have to pay them everything. It is the white man´s burden, you see.
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So they can have those tables in tents.
