[schrecken]

The video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjcvk4PwaYI


more specifically from about the 1 minut mark here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtgShKshDbA&feature=related

[southern_land]

[QM]

[Hoogley]

[Hoogley]

southern_land - "Yeah and bear in mind that the region isn't well known for the 3d aspects of its landscape."

LMAO.  Very good point.  I'm just toying with the idea at the moment.

southern_land - "Depending on what you're doing with buildings you'll require a minimum of a couple of dozen I'd guess.  I've never really counted but I suspect CC5 only has about 15-18 used in repition"

That sounds bearable; about 20 standard buildings, and I could also build up a number of "special" buildings (church, etc), or alternatively any landmark buildings can be scratch built.

southern_land - "One idea I had recently (too late for the recent maps production though unfortunately) was to complete one layered photoshop map with all the named layers and their different attributes.   So from the bottom ascending background, stream bed, water, dirt road/paths, surfaced road, brush, long grass, stone fence, wood fence, hedge, shadows, buildings, floor numbers.  Then once you've completed the first map save it, then remove all textures from all layers and "save as" template.

Then crop to the size of your new map (and at this srtage cropping can be done because the map is featureless) save as new name and start adding textures to appropriate layers."

Do you mean use each layer as a texture mask, and then draw in the texture for each?  Or are you just referring to the layer structuring?  Either way, I'm a big proponent for templates; it takes away the bulk of the work.  

My mind is locked into thinking in terms of, say, Star Craft, or Far Cry, or any in-game map building software.  So, in that context, I'm thinking "terrain" layers and "object" layers.  The main idea is to delineate which is which.  I figure that anything which can just be square tiled should be a Terrain Layer, and anything which needs placement & alignment is an Object.  So, for example:

Build a photoshop file at the max resolution for tLD maps (4800x4800);
Create a layer bank like, say:
/Terrain + /Earth + Rock, Gravel, Dirt, Mud; + /Water + Muddy, Clear, White; + /Grass + Brush, Dry, Green, Long; etc
/Objects + /Road + /Track, /Dual Tracks, /Dirt, /Semi-sealed, /Sealed; + /Buildings + /House + /Frame, /Roof, Floors + /Small Wood +/Frame, /Roof, Floors , /Large Wood + /Frame, /Roof, Floors, /Small Brick + /Frame, /Roof, Floors, /Large Brick + /Frame, /Roof, Floors; + /Crops + /Cabbages, /Wheat, /Barley, /Low GI Non-Pesticide Grain, etc.  You get the idea.

Each Terrain Layer is composed of tiling each texture to fill the entire map space, and you use it as a layer mask to draw in each texture.  Each Object Layer has a single instance of each object, and you copy the layers to add extra objects.  So, you basically set this up once - which will take bloody forever - and then you have a photoshop map template that... well, hell, anybody could use, I guess.  Most importantly, I could use the same template to make all the maps I need.

Again, I've never created a map before, so this is pure theory.  And, it only addresses the imagery of a battle map; it's not a solution for coding.

Thoughts, southern_land?  Or anybody with experience, for that matter?

[7A_Woulf]

I've started to do some research on the Jerrys during Market Garden, and I found this page with a brief description of the battle, info regarding Royal Engineers during the operation and a small hand drawn map of the area around the bridge itself...

http://www.remuseum.org.uk/campaign/rem_campaign_market-garden.htm

[Hoogley]

Here's an example using the PS map making template I'm working on.  Just something simple: blue water, sand, sparse grass, medium grass, full grass.  All are preset layers that you just use the layer mask to paint on the textures with a brush.  No mucking about; just straight in and texture.

Verdict?

[Hoogley]

More experimentation with the template.  I think I've got the muddy water down now.  There's a bit of an art to getting the edges to look like wash, but it's still relatively simple.

There's a flaw in the bridge surface tile; can anyone see it?  :]

[7A_Woulf]

Had you never done any maps before?!?
-BS!  

Anyway, damn good job so-far. Think it can get really good in the end.  

[Hoogley]

[Pete]

Those are without a doubt the best first attempts at drawing CC maps ever! I amazed about how well you have managed to draw a typical river bank. The transition from bank to grass field is spot on and the grass texture is also just about perfect. Is it one of Dodam's?. Point of note: river breakwaters are constructed of heavy rock and can be covered with vegetation.
Anyway, with your skills you could have this mod finished within 2 years  

[QM]

Nice work Hoogs, keep it up mate.

Bridge tile appears repetative if thats what you mean.  Use the clone tool to blur from a cleaner area of the pavement if you are concerned about it that is, otherwise, great detail.

[CSO_Talorgan]

[Hoogley]

Thanks a lot for the compliments.  

Seriously though, when I'm finished with this template (which will have to be just for basic Western Front maps for now), I'll find a way to upload it - it's very easily going to be over a gigbyte! - and I'd encourage anybody to give it a go.  Ignoring the incomplete bridge for the moment, everything else was very simply brushed on using a layer mask.  There isn't really any fancy brush techniques going on here.  The waters edge is probably the hardest thing to do; I used a standard size 64 circular diffused edge brush @ 15% pressure to slowly brush in the waters edge so it had a little bit of transparency to show through the sand.  But, the "lapping water" effect on the edge is not brushed; it's a layer effect.  So, like I said, what I've shown so far required very little artistic ability; the hard part is compiling the photoshop template.  Actually, I'll amend that statement; certain "landmark" objects will probably have to be scratch built, as I can't account for everything in the template.  But, that said, I'm hoping it will firstly get people who wouldn't make maps to give it a go, and also hopefully provide a tool for experienced map makers to speed things up a bit.  We'll see if I can live up to my own hype!

I've still got a bit to do yet; I have a number of Terrain Layers left to do, and I haven't made any Object Layers yet.  

The textures are all freshly collected from the interweb.  I'm trying to hand select textures that will blend well together.

The bridge map image is a quick "trace over" of a google map of present day Nijmegen Bridge.  Seriously, ignore the bridge; it's a quick fill in.  Although, I quite like my shadow.

I think I made too much of a big deal about the bridge flaw.  It's a small thing; the right edge is an inverted copy of the left, so if you compare the shading of the edging closely you'll start to realise that it looks wrong.

[southern_land]

very nice looking maps

[papa_whisky]

Go Hoogley go!

[squadleader_id]

Looks great!  Can't wait to download and play around with the PSD template!
Great work, Hoogley!

[7A_Woulf]

Do you guys know how unbelievingly hard it is to find intel on German forces during OMG?!?  

-At least when you leave the Arnhem-area and don't looking for armoured units (damn, there are peps out there that have listed every vehicle in SS Pz.Aufklär. Abt. 9 and the 107th armoured brigade...) I have the Ryan and Kershaw books, think I'm going to order the Osprey book "Arnhem 1944: Operation Market Garden" too and I have found a handful of internet pages and forums as well (among them Polemarchos post here: http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1506...)
 
Anyone got some tips, ideas or intel, just send me a PM or something, any help is good ATM.  

[Hoogley]

[Hoogley]

Question - Has anybody ever tried giving a squad more than one crewed weapon?  What happened?  Did the engine deal with it, or will it freak out?

The reason for asking is that I have at least one squad type that has a Bren and 2x PIATs, so I'm wondering if there's a way to allow all three weapons to be picked up by another team member if the carrier goes down.