[MattG666]

I just recently started playing CC yesterday, and so far I find it an excellent game with lots of variety and tactical options. Unfortunately my experience with wargames is on the company level, where a platoon of infantry assaulting tanks is viable.

I started playing the 'Moscow Retaliates' operation and I am repeatedly crushed by lots of T34s and a KV1. I immediately retreated in the first map to save my soldiers some undue hardhsip and so I would have enough points to save up for AT guns.

Unfortunately for me the final map consisted of 1 of my AT guns being shredded immediately at the start (I didn't know you could nto ambush from roads...) and the other AT gun bringing down approximately 3 or 4 T34s. my infantry sat around getting chewed up because they were next to useless. The only infantry worth a damn were some Light SS infantry with molotovs who almost destroyed the KV1 by themselves. Unfortunately after getting it down to red health and suffering next to no casualties they decided to surrender...

How do you deal with tanks effectively?
How do you deal with tanks using infantry? (They apaprently don't want to throw their hand grenades or assault it ever)
Is there a good beginner's guide somewhere on tactics?

Excuse me while I play CC 5 so I have bazookas

[Digs]

Welcome to CCS, head strait to boot camp.    http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=News&file=categories&op=newindex&catid=2

[MattG666]

Some good info there, but still looking for tactics on how to deal with armour, especially when using infantry. Thanks!

[Digs]

Here's some more info. http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=129

[7A_Woulf]

When I play CC3 (against the AI I must say) I relay heavily on a high-calibre AT-gun (a 50mm Pak at least, but rather a 75mm Pak or a captured Russian 76,2mm) as well as a Flak 88mm. I anchor my defence/attack around them to pick out those pesky Russian tanks (T-34:ors and KV:s), using infantry and inferior German tanks to counter-attack and taking out weaker tanks, guns and infantry...

But I haven't played CC3 h2h, so I don't know if it works in that type of games.

Good luck, and cheers!  

[MattG666]

^Unfortunately in the early campaigns, you don't really get any good AT guns except maybe a captured Russian one. I guess I just have to really try hard to keep the few AT guns alive?

[vonB]

Welcome to CC!

AT is key in the early stages.  Your Infantry have very poor tank stopping capability, though do not understimate the humble AT rifle against lighter tanks (that goes for you too; whatch out for pecky Russian AT rifles pinging away at your armour.  Eventually, they can render them useless even if not destroyed...)

The 50mm PaK38 is my preferred if available.  It hasn't enormous stopping power, but has a very attractive rate of fire, and will deal with anything given enough strikes, so cover is crucial and don't have them TOO close to the enemy as spotted AT will get priority attention from the enemy and a dead AT gun doesn't stop anything!.

The 88 can be an ace in the hole.  It will kill anything at any range on the Map.  However, it is very easily spotted, and once spotted will get attention from anything the enemy can throw at it (Mortars/HE).  So have them as far back as possible with the best field of fire as possible in whatever cover is available.  To increase survivability, try and keep the enemy occupied who might otherwise target the 88.  If you want to decrease the AI capability, then make it have to choose.  If you are lucky, this can actaully stop a weapon from performing as it tries to make its mind up what to do.  For example, assaulting tanks with infantry.  Assault it from 2 different directions at the same time, use smoke, and try and have something else fire at the tank.  The result can still be a disaster but the odds of success are higher, and timing is important.  Try the same manouvres a few times, and you wiil find that sometimes it works brilliantly, and sometimes it is a disaster, and that is usually down to timing.

Even in the absence of the 50mm and 88mm, use the 37mm PaK (the 'doorknocker' as the Germans affectionately nicknamed it).  It has awful stopping power, but high rate of fire and lots of ammo, and the more strikes it can make, even against a KV1 or T34, the more chance it has of disabling it, damaging the gun, killing/injuring the crew, and eventually, even destroying it.

At the end of the day, the only thing you have to deal with the Russian superiority in armour is AT.  You can use your tanks, but H2H the Russians will win, so you have to  box clever and its hard work with much micro management to be able to get the shots in and not get killed yourself..  THe best use of your armour is killing infantry and enemy AT etc, which they are very good at  

[Digs]

Taken from the Cross of Iron Manual...

Using Flamethrower Teams

Flamethrowers are deadly weapons, but flamethrower teams are among your most vulnerable. One rifle bullet can send the whole unit up in flames. These teams consist of one or two soldiers with tanks of pressurized fuel strapped to their backs. Russian engineer teams also use flamethrowers. These weapons are heavy and restrict movement, and their limited range (less than 50 meters) makes them ineffective in open terrain.

In World War II, infantry teams heavily supported most flamethrower teams; you’ll find this a successful tactic. Try to pin the enemy down with rifle, machine gun, and mortar fire while your flamethrower team moves into position. Flamethrowers can also be devastating when employed in close-quarters fighting (whether you’re attacking or defending) or in an ambush. They can destroy any kind of team from the lightest infantry to the heaviest tanks.

Using Antitank Gun Teams

One defense against enemy tanks is antitank (AT) guns. In deploying AT guns, look for fields of fire that cover likely tank routes. Remember to aim for tanks’ weakest points: the side or rear of German tanks and the rear of Russian tanks. Protect AT guns by placing them in buildings, trenches, or deep woods. Be sure to support antitank gun positions with infantry or machine gun teams; because antitank teams can’t move very fast, they need to be protected.

Part of any good antitank defense is taking out enemy infantry without committing your antitank guns. Remember that infantry is sent forward to get antitank weapons to reveal their position. If you can use infantry, machine guns, and mortars to take out advancing infantry, you’ll keep the enemy’s tanks guessing about your antitank gun’s location.

“The enemy is firing from every hole. You must not let yourself be seen.” - A German soldier in Stalingrad

As with other weapons, accuracy and destructive power increase as the target moves closer. Firing on targets at long range can disrupt enemy operations before movement begins, but doing so also reveals the position of the gun when you have only a small chance of knocking out the target.

Give your antitank guns the Ambush command until you can get a good shot at enemy targets when a Fire order gives you a bright green target dot.

Although AT guns are primarily antitank weapons, they are also lethal against infantry and long-range targets. Because they are slow to move after they are deployed, make sure you set up your guns in a protected location with a good line of sight.

To defend against a gun, don’t group up and don’t hide in buildings. Spread out in a field, cautiously approach to a point within grenade range, and then charge the gun.


Using Antitank Teams

Whenever you can, use other units to draw the tank’s attention so your antitank teams can approach their target without being detected. However, rather than maneuvering your antitank teams into position, ; try to deploy them in ambush positions so they don’t have to move. You can then withdraw them to safety after they take out their target. Even when an enemy tank come within range of your antitank team, it might take more than one shot to kill it. Remember that tanks almost always turn toward the direction of attack; be ready to withdraw your antitank team if the situation deteriorates.

You can use antitank teams against targets other than tanks. They can be especially useful in taking out enemy antitank guns, which have little armor to penetrate. Their gun shields are useful only against small arms fire.

The Russian military was both inflexible in its methods and bereft of well-trained officers in its lower echelons (from the division level down through the ranks). An example of both shortcomings is the fighting around the Porechye bridgehead in July and August of 1941. Although the bridgehead was only two miles deep and a quarter-mile wide, the Russians showered over 2,000 artillery shells a day into the bridgehead; ground support aircraft bombed the bridgehead at least once a day.

However, swampy forest surrounded the bridgehead, making it impossible for the Russians to do anything but attack straight down the two roads leading toward the bridge, which they did as many as ten times a day. Tanks led off the attacks, echeloned several deep, followed by waves of infantry. The attacks were finally suspended when new attacks could not get around the 78 wrecked tanks and 2,000 dead comrades that choked the roads.

[Digs]

Also taken from the CoI manual...

[Digs]

Another thing, enter your CC Options and set "Team Info Bars Display" to "Show Cover". Also, set "Soldier Outlines Display" to "Show Command". Show Command will tell you whether your units are within your command teams radius.

Taken from the Invasion Normandy (CC5) Manual:

The outline colours use the same colour spectrum as the target dots. When the outline colour is green, the troops are in good cover. When the outline is black, they are in poor cover.

COMMAND AND MORALE
While each unit has some kind of leader who leads his troops into battle, each unit’s fighting
effectiveness and morale is improved by being close to a higher ranking commander,
who can direct the efforts of those men under his command. Keeping battlefield commanders
near units on the front improves performance and morale dramatically. The
higher ranking a commander, the larger the battlefield area he is able to administer.
Pressing the Space bar on the battlefield shows the command radius of command personnel.
The colour of the circle indicates the quality of the commander.

Green........................High
Yellow ......................Medium
Red ............................Low
Black ........................Very Low

During the placement phase, and during battle, it is often useful to zoom the map out,
press the Space bar, and make sure that your commanders are positioned to provide
leadership to the troops.

As a battle progresses, some soldiers may lose morale. Receiving enemy fire, having their
officers die, being flanked or ambushed, being around too many dead bodies, or facing
too many enemies can all sap a soldier’s will to fight. Eventually, a soldier may panic, run
from the fight, or even surrender to the enemy. Convincing enemy troops to surrender
by breaking their morale can be a very efficient way to win battles. Prisoners are walked
off with raised hands to the map edge; they can be recaptured/freed if your own teams
reach them before they leave the map.

Aside from competent command, you can improve soldiers’ morale by successfully
ambushing the enemy. Infantry that manage to destroy enemy tanks also get a large
morale boost during the current battle.

Rallying
Soldiers that are routed will rally after a time. If they are within the command radius of a
command team, this time period will be shorter. If the broken soldier is not within the
command radius of a leader, the time needed to rally the soldier will be longer.

Separation
Occasionally, a soldier may get separated from his unit. This can happen from either panic
or simple fortunes of war. If this happens, the soldier attempts to find his way back to his
unit. This process can be hastened by moving the unit closer to their lost man. The presence
of a commander can also assist in keeping groups together and bringing in
separated men.

[vonB]

Once you have Schrecks and Fausts at your disposal, German Infantry can become quite powerful against armour, but in the early stages they are not available, so dealing with Russian Armour is probably one of the biggest challanges.

For maximum effectivess of AT (in my experience), make sure there is a Commander close by, and let the AT do the firing (i.e. use Defend).  Then it's down to your siting.

I also tend to start any game with AT in Ambush, until I get an idea about how the Battle is panning out, and then change it to Defend when it seems opportune to do so.  And don't start with them too close to the enemy line...

It's all good stuff that Digs has been digging out there.

[MattG666]

I don't have access to the actual manual, so the info posted is much appreciated! It is good to know that I wasn't crazy thinking that German infantry's AT was lacking earlier in the war .

[vonB]

One particular exception... always have the 88 (if you have one and get one if you can...) on Defend from the outset.  It is big enough to be spotted anyway, and will start taking enemy fire right away if any enemy can see it, which will mean mortars if only infanty spot it, and anything that can chuck HE at it if they can see it, so it is a good idea to try and get the first shot in.  The other AT Guns (75/50/37mm) can stay concealed quite well in Ambush, but the 88 is a monster of a gun, and where you put it, it stays for the battle!

The early stages of the Campaign illustrate the disparity between the German and Russian Armour.  So how did they do so well?  Blitzkrieg is not about frontal assault (although that was part of it), but about manouevering quickly to break up enemy formations into piecemeal units, which then get punded by air and assaulted by infantry while the Armour plays havoc with supply, Command and Control, and hitting the weakest points.  AT was used offensively.  It was often brought up in the wake of the Armoured thrusts and deployed to repel any counterattacks leaving the Panzers to continue with their mayhem.

That is hard to do on a CC Battlefield!  

But it wasn't always plain sailing.  In the early days of Barbarossa, there is an interesting account of a lone KV halting an entire German advance.  Sitting in the middle of a road, the heavy armour repelling all attempts from the 37mm and 50mm PaK's, which the KV destroyed one by one.  Eventually, the KV was destroyed by manouvering an 88 around a flank.  Even though the 88 could have destroyed it from the front, the KV was doing so much damage to anything that was trying to hit it, that I guess they didn't want to take the risk of that getting destroyed as well.

One more tip.  Try not to isolate your Units.  You can't attack or defend every inch of ground, and you do not need to.  One or two cohesive groups are better than 3 or more thinly deployed and out of Command radius groups.  If an enemy tank catches one of your infantry Teams isolated and overruns them, they will surrender or flee.  Same goes for AT.  I think it is better to have them work together rather than dotted all over the place.  The VL's should give you clues as to where the enemy (and even you) should be focused, so deploy accordingly...

Happy hunting!

[Digs]

I took the time to upload the Cross of Iron Manual and Commander's Combat Pack to MediaFire: http://www.mediafire.com/?guwmtjtyqhn

The CC3 manual can be downloaded here at CCS, it's practically the same as the Cross of Iron Manual: http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Downloads&cid=54 or here: http://www.replacementdocs.com

[Digs]

Besides here at CCS, you can get pdf manuals for CC1 through 5 here... http://closecombat.matrixgames.com/ClassicCC/ClassicCC.html