Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: Der Ost Front 2
Hello
I just wanted to provide a little feedback on DOF 2 as as I have seen in another thread that a new sequel was under way...
I have completed the entire AI Grand Campaign as German, and I am playing again the GC vs my brother as German (currently we are fighting the stalingrad op, i.e. 7th Operation in the GC, out of 15).
First of all I must say that this Eastern front mod offers both attack and defense battles on a great variety of terrains (cities, open fields, forest, fortifications...) with the ability to upgrade units over a campaign spanning from '41 to '45. That is why CC3/COI are my favourite games in the CC series...
In this mod, it is obvious that a lot of work has been put on unit data and playability, even enhanced by very challenging and rarely seen maps!
Overall, a top class mod for COI!
Here are below a few suggestions:
- 15-day duration for each operation is a bit too long as it gets less challenging for the attacker to win all 5 maps in the time allowed (I think 10 days would be perfect)
- I would love an even greater variety of maps (sometimes two consecutive operations have the same maps, the only difference being who is attacking)
- Specific german 3-men AT units would be extremely useful in the first ops to counter KVs dominance in the first ops. Moreover, german flamers are uneffective vs tanks contrary to russian flamers, which I find uneven, specially vs KVS in the first ops
- Many maps are in favor of the russian defender (i.e. bunkers/ trenches are all oriented the same way)
- Russian sniper is too much effective, especially when russian is hosting as you cant even see the muzzle flash (long-time multiplayer bug since CC3)
- Mark IV G appears early '42, which is not historically accurate, although it enables to counter KVs dominance!
- Panthers and Tigers arrive very late (10th op if I remember well). Same for panzerfausts.
- 120mm mortar is very fun, it prevents AT Guns dominance on the field, but on the other hand it makes half-tracks nearly useless due to extreme vulnerability to 120mm shells. I would advise to extend a bit more the minimum reach of the 120mm mortar?
- LOS issues: quite a few times you can see a tank and fire on it although the opponent does not see you: this may be realistic in some cases but very frustrating overall. What is the reason for that?
Anyway I wanted to thank you AGS for all the intense and bloody battles I have played on this mod so far... I am looking forward to the new version!
In this mod, it is obvious that a lot of work has been put on unit data and playability
Definately between 1-2,000 hours of dedicated work.
Re playability, i probably spent 20-30 hours just tweaking infantry units to keep the RP prices diferent so not too many inf teams had the same RP price.
- 15-day duration for each operation is a bit too long as it gets less challenging for the attacker to win all 5 maps in the time allowed (I think 10 days would be perfect)
My regular opponent and i usually go down to the last day on nearly every OP.
Maybe you are playing no time limit, or 30+min battles
DOF scenarios are designed for 20 minute battles for H2H and only 12min battles for the AI (with 2 minute warning on for both). To pressure the attacker more, make game speed "FAST"
- I would love an even greater variety of maps (sometimes two consecutive operations have the same maps, the only difference being who is attacking)
Yes, many OPs are like that.
3 reasons:
(A) Limited number of suitable maps available
(B) Many of the Battles in Russia were "to & fro", attacks & counterattacks over the same ground
(C) For the poor sucker who has to make the 42 campaign operations , it saves a LOT of time
Be of good cheer though, DOF3 should have 6 new operations with new maps, but they will be only 3 set of maps, more "to & fro" i'm afraid
- Specific german 3-men AT units would be extremely useful in the first ops to counter KVs dominance in the first ops. Moreover, german flamers are uneffective vs tanks contrary to russian flamers, which I find uneven, specially vs KVS in the first ops
The german FTs just have a shorter range than the Russian FTs, but they have just as much destrucive power once in range.
Re the KVs, i usually just pound them with the support guns 15cmIG, or 10.5cmFH, if i can
Maybe you want a 3man team armed with explosives?
- Mark IV G appears early '42, which is not historically accurate, although it enables to counter KVs dominance!
Only a Kommand PzIVg appears in spring42 at lowest availability level.
They dont appear in numbers until summer42, then their numbers double in Fall42.
- 120mm mortar is very fun, it prevents AT Guns dominance on the field, but on the other hand it makes half-tracks nearly useless due to extreme vulnerability to 120mm shells. I would advise to extend a bit more the minimum reach of the 120mm mortar?
Hmmm, min range for the 12cm mortar is already 200 metres in the game, any more and they would be almost unusable on maps that are usually only 500 metres wide.
Maybe just remove them altogether as in RR 5cm & 8cm mortars can kill guns too :)
Halftracks & ACs survive better in DOF2 than any other CC mod or game because of 20-30 hrs of work i did on that problem.
This was mainly achieved by reducing armour penetration of 5cm & 8cm mortars and rifles & LMGs.
To compensate, the accuracy levels of these small arms was increased.
This had the excellent byproduct of increasing the number of kills scored by rifle bearing infantry
- LOS issues: quite a few times you can see a tank and fire on it although the opponent does not see you: this may be realistic in some cases but very frustrating overall. What is the reason for that?
Anyway I wanted to thank you AGS for all the intense and bloody battles I have played on this mod so far... I am looking forward to the new version!
Glad you enjoy the mod.
You'll have to be patient re DOF3, it is still a long way off. These days i dont have the time i did when i made DOF & DOF2 because i am now married and employed.
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Der Ost Front 2
Dear ArmeeGruppeSud
Many thanks for your detailed answers, which make a lot of sense to me.
I hope I did not sound too picky in my comments: I love DOF 2 and feel very grateful to you, and the whole modding community for making CC series alive and well.
Cheers to you for this great mod (and to Southern land for these challenging maps)
No, not at all, constructive criticism is always taken well.
Its just when people mix in some mocking attitudes that it becomes irritating (e.g. nikin)
I love DOF 2 and feel very grateful to you, and the whole modding community for making CC series alive and well.
Cheers to you for this great mod
Your welcome, i love DOF too (my little baby) and yes, i appreciate the community which contributed lots to DOF, e.g. all the custom maps, the many editing tools (which made my work possible), many graphics that i borrowed/hijacked/stole from other mods and even the uniform mod from the BR clan just to highlight a few.
Be of good cheer though, DOF3 should have 6 new operations with new maps, but they will be only 3 set of maps, more "to & fro" i'm afraid .
That statement is not entirely accurate. Regarding those 6 OPs, yes, there will be only 3 sets of maps, but...........
2 Ops will be the Germans fighting through Belarussia in 1941, then, the same two map sets will be used for 2 OPs, being 2 legs of Operation Bagration in 1944, so the "to & fro" will be 3 years apart
Frankly, atm i cannot remember where i had planned the other 2 OPs, maybe it was 3 & 3.
3 more Barbarossa OPs & 3 Bagration OPs)
Part of the DOF3 concept is to have 48 Operations which can all be played by playing 3 seperate 16 operation Campaigns
Also, if somebody (not mentioning names), maybe even a fellow aussie, can help me with the exe changes, my plan is to have, not only a HeeresGruppeSud GC again, but also a HeeresGruppeMitte GC as well
Oh, ll_Alexis_ll dont just play the Grand Campaign, play some of the other campaigns because there are other new operations and maps that are not in the GC
Hammer & Anvil, Reich on the Rocks, Stemming the tide, Achtung Panzer, Barbarossa, Enemy at the Gates etc etc, there are many months of bloodbaths still to be had.
Have you been in Crimea yet?
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