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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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 Author
Message
 
VonStauffenberg

Rep: 1.4


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:08 am Post subject: Visibility Reply with quote

I have a question about LSA. How come I cannot see enemy teams? I have been playing online recently, and I can see bullets spraying from buildings, but my men can never see the enemy unless they are very close up. Why is this? I am forced to manually target everything.
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papa_whisky

Rep: 42.2
votes: 4


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Part of the problem of combat is not being able to see who or exactly where someone is firing on you from. This seems well reflected in the game although some may argue to easy or too difficult to spot the enemy.
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VonStauffenberg

Rep: 1.4


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Ugh I am so tired of these weak historical answers. I can see the bullets spraying, I just can't target them. For instance, a platoon of paras comes under fire from a bell tower. They can see the bullets coming from the bell tower, they just cant target it. It is a sloppy game mechanic. So these troops, when put on defend, will sit around and do nothing, even knowing where from they are receiving fire.
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Nacrox

Rep: 5.5


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Weak historical answers? LOL, in a real combat nobody will use tracers to show themselves from where are they firing, and if they caught you in that status is because you weren't really cautious with your moves, so as penalty you should be using suppressive fire (indirect fire) with a MG to counter that fire and maneuver with others teams to flank that tower or something

Your soldiers will never be able to kill somebody in a heavy-covered house at the distance were they can't spot the enemy, and you should consider that ingame there are tracers but it's done because if not the player wouldn't be able to counter those crossfires, the tracers aren't put ingame because the "soldiers" can actually "see tracers flying around"
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VonStauffenberg

Rep: 1.4


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Wow. Please don't insult my intelligence. I realize that the green and red lines are not tracers but are game mechanics. Please. When appealing to realism, think about what might have really happened. The game mechanics are sloppy because my troops less than fifty meters away cannot spot the enemy. A sniper set to defend 50 meters from a building with enemy troops is unable to spot them, even after they start shooting. A sniper. How is this realistic? What about an entire platoon of paras unable to spot shooting from a bell tower which I have meticulously surrounded?
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buuface

Rep: 56.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Use indirect fire to suppress, then send in an assault squad. And stop whining
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

G'day all

@ vonS  Smile

Your men cannot see the men concealed in the bell tower building, because they do not have Xray vision,whereas the men in the bell tower can see your men and shoot at them because they are exposed in the open.

What the others are trying to explain to you, is that YOU must order suppression fire on the bell tower.
Your soldiers' AI cannot/don't give suppression fire orders.
You can order your men to target/shoot at a piece of dirt.
Likewise you can target a building.

Therefore, it is normal practice, in all CC games, for the player to order/target suppression fire onto the building with 1 or more other teams, while he uses another team to assault the building.
Only other option is to blast said building with BIG cannon.

If your complaint is why cant yr AI soldiers choose to implement suppression fire themselves, the answer is because its too difficult to program.
Well, if the truth/facts dont quiet yr complaining, then you should stop bitching and become an AI programmer and fix it yourself.

Cheers

AGS


P.S. maybe the soldiers in the Bell tower have uniforms that are the same color and pattern as the bell tower's interior wallpaper   Laughing

_________________________________


RIP

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10576
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VonStauffenberg

Rep: 1.4


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

It isn't too difficult to program. CC2 and 3 did it perfectly. And I have already gone back to those games before some tells me to "go play those instead."

If I sound like I am whining, it is because no one has bothered to answer any of my tough questions, instead choosing to take the easy routes in attacking my examples. In logic, this is the fallacy of the Straw Man, where a person attacks the weakest part of someone's argument (it is easier to knock down a straw man man a real one). It also bothers me that many of these posts are assuming I have never played before. I know how to suppress and do all of that. My issue is with troops very close not being able to target the enemy. Like a sniper. Enemy troops cease to be concealed after they start firing, at least in cc2 and 3.
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Nacrox

Rep: 5.5


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

It could be that heavy covered zones in CC2 and CC3 were lower than the maps in CC5, so the engine doesn't calculate them correctly.

I remember have played the SDK mod and there the cover was almost no existant, and I remember that there the visibility was higher.

And I have played CC2 and CC1 too, but you need to remember that in that game the firefights were at almost 30m or less, because the maps were smaller.
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Tejszd

Rep: 130.8
votes: 19


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Probably just need to decrease the Cover and or Hindrance values in the elements file....
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VonStauffenberg

Rep: 1.4


PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

I wish I knew how to mod. I guess maybe i'll try it out instead of complaining...
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papa_whisky

Rep: 42.2
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

I think in LSA they have got the cover and hindrance files about right. AI seems to have a big advantage over human in spotting. As soon as you open fire you are normally immediately targeted. I think this is even more so the case when you provide a direct fire order. So many times I have regretted not holding my fire to take easy kills when it would have been so much more effective to hold fire and allow the AI to commit more of its units let them get closer and then hammer them to hell. So the AI teaches good fire discipline.
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Tejszd wrote (View Post):
Probably just need to decrease the Cover and or Hindrance values in the elements file....
Good point, i had thought to suggest that the problem vonS is encountering could be located in either the values in the elements file, or, in the coding of the buildings on the LSA maps.

Being fired upon by units that are not visible is not uncommon in CC, but i imagine the circumstances that vonS is referring to must be beyond the normal  levels.

Not having played LSA, i could assume that the cover values are higher than other CC games.
Somebody could check the cover values of buildings in LSA and compare them to the cover values of buildings in CC2 etc

@ vonS
Unless you are prepared to face the task of editing yr elements file, you can only take the advice given by the CC addicts above (suppress and assault), though i prefer the blast the with BIG cannon option  Very Happy

vonS, the game aint meant to be easy, if it was, it would be no challenge, and no fun

VonStauffenberg wrote (View Post):
I wish I knew how to mod. I guess maybe i'll try it out instead of complaining...
Give it a crack M8, i did  Very Happy

cheers

AGS

_____


RIP

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10576
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
I think in LSA they have got the cover and hindrance files about right. AI seems to have a big advantage over human in spotting. As soon as you open fire you are normally immediately targeted. I think this is even more so the case when you provide a direct fire order. So many times I have regretted not holding my fire to take easy kills when it would have been so much more effective to hold fire and allow the AI to commit more of its units let them get closer and then hammer them to hell. So the AI teaches good fire discipline.


Completely Agree  Exclamation

Its generally a game of ambush.  Idea

Over time, I learned to move troops where they could not be observed (by the enemy), allowed them time to settle in to their new position, and let them acquire targets on their own (without player assistance). Things work much better this way.
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Tejszd

Rep: 130.8
votes: 19


PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Download the LSA workbook from here; http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2852939

This will explain what the fields are in the various data files including the element file which is what you want in this case.
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

The main problem is that you are able to see these tracers which allows exploits like targeting enemy teams despite that no one knows where they are.
Another exploit is that bodies show up when killed no matter if anyone sees them or not. It allows using indirect fire weapons to detect enemy units.

Armored Brigade successfully avoids such exploits and confusing presentation by not showing "tracers" from undetected units and having a detection mechanic based on weapon type fired.
You can download Armored Brigade for free here.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
If your complaint is why cant yr AI soldiers choose to implement suppression fire themselves, the answer is because its too difficult to program.

How do you know it.


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Therion wrote (View Post):
How do you know it.

.                Wink

How is it that you dont ?

cheers

AGS

_____


RIP

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10576
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romppane

Rep: 8.2
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

If you know exactly where the enemy squad is, and you set your machine gun to fire at it manually, how much less effective is your fire compared to being able to directly target the squad?

What sort of things affect the probability to spot a hidden squad? I assume the more squads you have watching, the better the changes are? I read that scout squads can spot well. Can you see the spotting skill, or is it some hidden attribute?

When does the game check if a squad is spotted? Is it only when the squad does something, or could you spot a squad simply by waiting and watching?
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Visibility Reply with quote

Sometimes when I see the 'muzzle flashes' where the enemy shooting originates I target that spot with rifles/mg's. If I get a hit it sometimes reveals the whole enemy unit.

I think it's good that the enemy units are difficult to detect, especially when they are belly down and relatively far away.
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