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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
Gosh this is still going on!
Sure is  Very Happy  
papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
I will be happy to bet against any of you changing the beliefs of others during the life of this thread..
You could well be right papa

Wether or not the lost souls (atheists), who say in this thread that there is no God, change their minds or not, is not the imperative here.

Sure it would be great, if, when i arrive in heaven, i meet MF and other ex-atheists there, but, there are other lost souls reading this thread.

They may not be entering the conversation, but that is not important.

If some of these spectators are prompted to reevaluate their beliefs and, if just one believes the truth and accepts God's generous gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ, then its all worth the effort  Cool


papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
Small error regarding the UN. The UN is better described as Secular, not Atheist.
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
The U.N. is a secular organisation, so is the E.U.
Thats what i said  Wink

The UN does not express a belief in God, by default that makes the UN a nonbelieving organisation.
(This is not saying that some UN staff are not God believing)

From God's perspective, you are either FOR HIM, or AGAINST HIM, there is no grey area

CHEERS

AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fiestita

Rep: 6.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

I think God went on vacation long ago, especially in the 1939-1945 period.
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
But to underline, universities don't make laws.
OH MF, did you forget your reading glasses again?

Nobody, that includes myself, ever said that universities make laws.


Quote:
Yes, Mars was one of God's lesser feats.
The entire universe is God's creation, so one small planet is no big deal.
MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
There is no difference between you and a babbling toddler who believes in santa clause etc.
Awww poor insecure MF, when MF is faced with facts that totally refute his flawed belief system MF withdraws behind a barrage of peurile mockery .

That is just so sad MF  Sad

Just for the record, i don't belive in fairy tales, not Snow White, not Santa Claus, not Evolution Theory, nor Peter Pan.  Very Happy


MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Or maybe I should compare to an insane person since even most kids will learn the difference between fairy tales and reality.
So i guess you must be the exception  Razz


Quote:
They have been told.
MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
You have told them?.
Not personally, but they would need to have spent their entire lives as hermits in a cave to have avoided hearing about the truth.


MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
I guess they ignored since they are using fact-based science instead of fairytales
To the contrary, if they believe that there is no God who created the universe and that the universe just happenned with no cause (that itself is unscientific), then they do believe a fairytale.

Oh, and scientists are not using fact based science to try to explain the reason for the universe's existence.

They are using theories to try to explain the facts.


Scientific theories are constantly changing, being scrapped as facts continuingly refute their theories. So they just make up a new theory, which atheists just accept as fact because that suits them to use it as an excuse not to face the reality of God.

Logic:

If there is no cause, then there is no effect.

No action or event is without cause.

Here is the fairy tale that you believe MF

Once upon a time, a massive amount of energy appeared, without a source or cause, in an apparently infinite void, which exist for no reason and without cause.

For no reason and without cause , this massive amount of sourceless energy concentrated itself in one microscopic point and then, for no reason and without cause exploded.

This sourceless energy also, for no reason and without cause, arranged itself into various structured elements.

These elements, for no reason and without cause, formed stars and planets.

Eventually, for no reason and without cause, one planet just happenned to be perfectly formed to be suitable for habitation.

Then, for no reason and without cause, life just happenned.


Then, for no reason and without cause, lthe DNA genetic code just happenned.

(The code wrote itself)

There, that is the atheists fairytale of the creation of the universe without God


Maybe you believe a fairy, not God, created the universe and is the source of life

The fairy waved her wand and "POOF" life just suddenly appeared

Well you must believe in fairies MF, i mean why couldn't they exist.

You obviously believe all sorts of things just appear, for no reason and without cause  Laughing

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
A question, do you force others into your beliefs?
No, i don't, do you ?

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
IMO it's wrong to force others into these crazy religious cults.
Agreed, it is wrong to force people into crazy religious cults.
It is also wrong to teach children, even adults, a lie that jeopardizes their opportunity to enjoy life in eternity

Quote:
Oh really, i don't think so. In fact i know your fingers grew as a direct result of programming.
MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Bunch of crazy babble.
So you don't think your fingers grew because of the programming in your genetic blueprint.

Do you realy believe your fingers were an accidental fluke, your fingers "just happenned"?  Wink

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH THE UNSCIENTIFIC EVOLUTION THEORY MODEL.

There was earth, a lifeless planet, then, suddenly, for no reason and without cause,


POOF!!

LIFE just appeared  Rolling Eyes

So, you do believe in fairy tales.

CHEERS

AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
I think God went on vacation long ago, especially in the 1939-1945 period.
Not at all...

God was busy during WW2

If not for his many interventions, the Axis would probably have won WW2.

Don't have time right now, my impatient young wife is in bed awaiting me.

But the coldest winter, since Napoleon, saved Russiain 1941 .

The wind that blew German bombers off course so they bombed London which changed the Battle of Britain, otherwise Britain would probablyhave fallen.

God's little tweaks saved the US carriers at Pearl Harbor and Midway.

The German naval code falling into allied hands and many other "strokes of Luck" were actually gifts from God which all contributed to the eventual allied victory.

CHEERS
AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

The Australian Aboriginal Mythology sure is beautiful. Dreamtime anyone?


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Close Combat's most infamous SOB


Last edited by US_Brake on Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fiestita

Rep: 6.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Fiestita wrote (View Post):
I think God went on vacation long ago, especially in the 1939-1945 period.
Not at all...

God was very busy during WW2

If not for his many interventions, the Axis would have won WW2.

Don't have time right now, my impatient young wife is in bed awaiting me.

But the coldest winter since napoleon in 1941 saved Russia.

The wind that blew German bombers off course so they bombed London which changed the Battle of Britain, otherwise Britain would have fallen.

God's little tweaks saved the US carriers at Pearl Harbor and Midway.

The German naval code falling into allied hands and many other "strokes of Luck" were actually gifts from God which all contributed to the eventual allied victory.

CHEERS
AGS

.


And why is necessary Axis "the evil"?

Besides, if you consider casualties taken by bullets or salves, and the ones due to the cold climate, then the conclusion is easy:

By January 1942...

+ Whermatch had 182.608 dead, 621.308 wounded and 35.439 missing, a total of 839.355 casualties in the eastern front.
+ Casualties of total or partial freezing of bodies is estimated at 200.000 in the most communist historians (german historians usually talk about 100.000 casualties due to freezing).

So Red Army did defeat Whermatch in military ways, like blasting the shit out of them, without god's help. Also why would God help a regime that predicates atheism (remember one of Marx's maxes: "Religion is people's opium")?
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Panzermayer

Rep: 12


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Is AGS a super troll?  Twisted Evil

Quote:
Just for the record, i don't belive in fairy tales, not Snow White, not Santa Claus, not evolution, nor Peter Pan.  Very Happy

We witness evolution everyday (London 2012 olympics) but I agree, the 'theory' is not 100% airtight because nobody saw animals evolve, etc. And if god made us, why did it gave us pointless tailbones or teeth? some more info: http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm

And take in mind that nobody mentions jezus in anything like 35 years after his 'death'. Why is that?


If there was a god, it did a lousy job! Because it feels guilty for its bad work, everybody goes to heaven Cool
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
And why is necessary Axis "the evil"?

Who said the AXIS were evil?

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
besides, if you consider casualties taken by bullets or salves, and the ones due to the cold climate, then the conclusion is easy:

By January 1942...

+ Whermatch had 182.608 dead, 621.308 wounded and 35.439 missing, a total of 839.355 casualties in the eastern front.
+ Casualties of total or partial freezing of bodies is estimated at 200.000 in the most communist historians (german historians usually talk about 100.000 casualties due to freezing).
Yes, the casualties were one aspect of how the winter of 41 disabled the Wehrmacht and prevented them from Capturing Moscow (and many other objectives).
The intense cold of that winter, did not just freeze soldiers.
It froze the Panzers, their supply trucks, the Luftwaffe was frozen too.

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
So Red Army did defeat Whermatch in military ways, like blasting the shit out of them, without god's help.
Excuse me!

Until the Wehrmacht were frozen to a standstill, the Germans were TOTALLY WINNING, especially in the "blasting the shit out of them" department.

The Soviets were only saved by the bell (God's divine winter = the bell)

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
Also why would God help a regime that predicates atheism (remember one of Marx's maxes: "Religion is people's opium")?
Yes, i am well aware of Marxist anti-religious status.
God never does anything for just one rerason, so i will not pretend to know all the reasons for all of God's actions (i am not omniscient, only God is).

We can safely say that it suited God's long term plans for humanity.

But just to give you a simple answer that you can grasp.

At the time, Marxist Russia was the lesser of the 2 evils.

For another;

If Russia had fallen, Germany would have turned West again, conquered Britain and may have ruled Europe for 1000 years (as Hitler had planned).

Then North Africa and the middle east.

With alll the rest defeated, Germany and Japan could have then invaded America.

Then there would eventually be the Gold medal playoff between Japan and Germany for Global domination. Now there is a good "What IF" topic for the W@W Forum.

CHEERS

AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
Is AGS a super troll?
Thankyou for the compliment (i think)  Laughing

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
We witness evolution everyday (London 2012 olympics).
WOW!, and DRAT!

Have been watching the London olympic games and i missed the part where a human being evovled into a new species (homo Olympus).

Sorry, but you are wrong, there was no new species at London Olympic village.
It was just a man withy a very bad case of herpes and, if he has children, they will not carry that gene (thank God).

What you do witness every day at the Olympic games is evidence of the generous creative design of God who instilled many great qualities in humanity which can achieve amazing feats in the eyes of the unfit and untrained couch potato.

Yes, by designed, planned excersise, diet and training, we can improve the physical ability of an invidual, and using God's patented DNA program, these qualiities can be inherited by the next generation.
But if the next generation sit on the couch, they will pass their flabby genes to their kids  Laughing

We all know that we with selective training and breeding programs can make improvements within species and even create new breeds within a species.

But even with man's science, we cannot, by plan, create a new species (which scientific fairytale says happenned by accident Laughing )

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
but I agree, the 'theory' is not 100% airtight because nobody saw animals evolve, etc.)
Hey, their theory aint even 50% airtight, in fact it wont hold water, or sand, or rocks  Laughing  

A scientific fact needs to be reproduceable to be proveable.  Cool

Even with their 2012 level sciences they cant do, on purpose, what they say "happenned by accident".  Laughing

God's simplest biological creations are far too advanced for man to emulate  Laughing



Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
And if god made us, why did it gave us pointless tailbones or teeth? some more info: http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm)
Our tailbone is not pointless  Wink

Do you mean wisdom teeth are pointless?

If people never lose any of their other teeth, they would seem pointless.

Sometimes i think God did/made some things just to make people ask questions.

After all, God did invent humour too  Wink

There are plenty of various explanations for those.

My favourite one is that all those examples are proof against evolution  Wink

Oh you want links involved:

http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c038.html
http://carm.org/atheism
http://emach.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/10-questions-every-intelligent-atheist-must-answer/
http://carm.org/an-examination-of-atheisms-truth-claims
http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/index.html
http://www.seekfind.net/Atheisms_Problem_With_Logic_Why_Atheists_Cant_Logically_Hold_Their_Opinion.html
 

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
And take in mind that nobody mentions jezus in anything like 35 years after his 'death'. Why is that?
You must be speak about written literature.
People could not stop talking about him after he died, Jesus was a "Hot topic" in Jerusalem.

As far as recorded letters (the Gospels, Acts & the Epistles of the Bible), yes, those that were included in the Bible, were all written later than 35AD.

I'm sure Jesus got plenty of  mentions in letters which were not saved for posterity, that were written before 35AD.

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
If there was a god, it did a lousy job! Because it feels guilty for its bad work, everybody goes to heaven Cool
Everybody goes to heaven. Who told you that heresy?

CHEERS

AGS

P.S. ATHEIST SCIENCE theorises it took 4 billion years for man to evolve from a single celled life form.

But we all KNOW, that a single celled life form evovles into a man in just 9 months, the way it was programmed to   Wink
.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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platoon_michael

Rep: 41.8
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

What ever happened to just doing the right thing?
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):
What ever happened to just doing the right thing?
When secularist rejected God to become atheists they also rejected his moral precepts, they:
threw out the baby with the bathwater

Without the absolute morals handed to us by God, morality, for the atheist, becomes entirely subjective.

Whats is good , equates to: "What is good for me".

Secular society, ruled by atheist moral precepts, will undoubtedly degenerate morally.

Look around Michael, surely, unless you are deaf, dumb and blind, you will have noticed it already happenning in your life time.

It is prophesised in the Bible which has a 100% success rate.

An Atheistic Secular society, with a humanisti morality will do what it thinks is best for mankind.

Like the Nazis, they would seek to create an perfecrt people, killing embryos and even babies born with certain traits judged as defects.

Eventually, you could be aborted for having the wrong eye color.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

"When secularist rejected God to become atheists they also rejected his moral precepts"

AGS this is typical Cult-Leader type talk. Jim Jones type rap. You should really check yourself bro.

First you lable "other" people, call them names like secularists, atheists (loaded terms).

Of course "other people" have no moral precepts, if they did you wouldnt be special. You are not going to be accepted by a cult unless you share a belief that your groups is blessed by the creator of the universe and stand in stark contrast to the evil ones...

The reality is that all humans have moral precepts and the are very similar reguardless of religious or ethnic background. The reality is that atheists, secularist, homosexuals, and devoted religious people are the same people, each just as right and good as the other. I know that is a hard concept to follow but think about it.

"Without the absolute morals handed to us by God, morality, for the atheist, becomes entirely subjective"

Morality is subjective. Human being invented morality, and continue to shape it with language and culture. Humans also invented God and Mythology to cope with the mysteries of life. No suprise there!


"Secular society, ruled by atheist moral precepts, will undoubtedly degenerate morally"

Is that to say that, Religious society, ruled by believer moral precepts, will undoubtedly advance morally?

Human being are going to behave as humans, reguardless of labels.


"It is prophesised in the Bible which has a 100% success rate"

Bible Prophesy is bullshit. Same with soothsayers, palm readers, psychics, etc.




Close Combat's most infamous SOB
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Fiestita

Rep: 6.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Who said the AXIS were evil?


I though you, as you said God helped Red Army.

Excuse me!

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Until the Wehrmacht were frozen to a standstill, the Germans were TOTALLY WINNING, especially in the "blasting the shit out of them" department.

The Soviets were only saved by the bell (God's divine winter = the bell)


I totally disagree with that. Engine freezes were equals to both, and freezing casualties represented 10% in the worst case and affected both armies as well (until the arrive of soviet reserves the december 5th soviet army did not have winter clothing either). Is a matter of fact also, the fact that what stopped Operation Typhoon was the mud, not the snow. When the snow frozen the ground, Panzers could roll over again, and most of Soviet Army officers agree that the frozen ground took away the T-34's suspension system advantage and suited a perfect ground for the panzertruppe, especially the Pz IIIJ.

Also, temperatures weren't record cold until the december 5th, and Luftwaffe was able to fly most of the time, but the soviet AA guns and the VVS continued to stiffen. They did so a great job defending Moscow's skies, that german bombers could attack the capital's last fortification ring only once in the whole Operation Tycoon.

Another fact of the Red Army win is the fact that despite Smolensk, Krasnograd, Rhzev, Vyazma, and Novgorod, the krauts did not reach crutial objectives for an encirclement like Klin, Kalinin or Tula (they reached the cities, but Red Army defended three of them bravely). Red Army did loose 151 divisions, mainly due to earlier encirclements, but it's reserves by december 5th were of 156 divisions (32 armor brigades also) only in the moscow section.

I will now quote general Halder in his august 8th diary writing: 'The actual situation puts in evidence that we have underestimated the red colosus... Soviet divisions are not armed and equiped at the same level of our standards and ther tactical command is mostly deficient. But they are out ther and if we blast a docen of them, they simply put another docen.'

So maybe it weren't "fair" for the Whermatch, but Red Army exploited really well their manpower and ther superior industry.

Even supposing that the Whermatch would have reached Moscow before december 5th, the krauts just hadn't enough men to hold their objectives against fresh and fairly equipped soviet reserves, they were extremely low in tanks and AT guns not because of the freezes, the krauts had serious loses in July, 558 tanks (112 PzKpfw-II, 182 PzKpfw-38t, 155 PzKpfw-III y 109 PzKpfw-IV), 429 (104 PzKpfw-II, 183 PzKpfw-38t, 74 PzKpfw-III y 68 PzKpfw-IV) in august. In the other hand they did only loose 325 tanks (70 PzKpfw-II, 102 PzKpfw-38t, 113 PzKpfw-III y 40 PzKpfw-IV) in december.

If you take in consideration the fact that the Whermatch launched Barbarossa with less than 5.000 tanks in all types, then they lost 20% of them in the first two months. These are huge loses for such a large offensive, and the cold did not affect the krauts in summer.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Yes, i am well aware of Marxist anti-religious status.
God never does anything for just one rerason, so i will not pretend to know all the reasons for all of God's actions (i am not omniscient, only God is).

We can safely say that it suited God's long term plans for humanity.

But just to give you a simple answer that you can grasp.

At the time, Marxist Russia was the lesser of the 2 evils.

For another;

If Russia had fallen, Germany would have turned West again, conquered Britain and may have ruled Europe for 1000 years (as Hitler had planned).

Then North Africa and the middle east.

With alll the rest defeated, Germany and Japan could have then invaded America.

Then there would eventually be the Gold medal playoff between Japan and Germany for Global domination. Now there is a good "What IF" topic for the W@W Forum.

CHEERS

AGS

.


Do your really think that the Whermatch could be able to outmatch the USA superior industry?

Seriously I don't see german industry building one ship a day, even controlling the whole european continent.
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Blackstump

Rep: 24.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Blackstump wrote (View Post):
I like to think that i'm as decent as any righteous religious individual, without any Muppet telling me what i need to do to find salvation.
3 points

1st you said: "I like to think that i'm .. decent"

If judgement is left to the individual, then we could all be judged as perfect.

Even mass murderers, such as the Norwegian crazyman, Anders Behring Breivik, just like many other maniacs, judge themselves as "descent" citizens.

So self judgement will just never do....., sorry  Sad

As a Christian, whom you incorrectly label as: "self-righteous", i judge myself as less than perfect (=sinful) and strive for continual self improvement with God's help.

My only righteousness, is not my own, but rather, it is Jesus Christ's righteoussness, which is credited to me, as a gift, of God's grace (thanks Jesus).

2ndly what muppet?

The muppets are actually a secular movement, they preach evolution and believe they evovled from socks, without the influence, design, or imagination of any other creative being (making them just as ignorant, naive and gullable as the humanist secular evolutionists).

3rdly
No matter how good you judge yourself to be, IF, a muppet could point you in the right direction, to gain eternal salvation, you would be prudent and wise to listen to it  Smile   Wink

CHEERS

AGS

.

In reply AGS
1st If judgement is left to others than they are judgeing you on their morals, how would you feel if Anders Breivik sat on that panel ?
Only the individuall knows his own morals only the individuall knows how low he willl go.
Better for me, to judge that, than say... you (let not you judge others less you be judged yourself )
You say you strive for self improvement with gods help, and that your less than perfect.
I know that i am less than perfect, and i strive to improve myself by helping others without resorting to convert them to my beliefs.

2nd Muppets are made by men, as is your god, one can believe in either that is their choice, i prefer to believe in myself.

3rd If you believe that your god will give you eternal salvation than good on you. I hope everybodys god will do the same. Personaly i think there all barking mad.


"percute et percute velociter"
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Blackstump

Rep: 24.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

[.[/quote]

I guess if you live in Australia then you can live your entire life in that backwoods area that you live in and not engage people in any type of serious discussion and come face to face with how things are. That's how Muslims live their lives, they live where they are and rarely meet for example western people who could tell them how things are and educate them so they stay religious. You are just like them. Congratz eh?[/quote]

In reply to MajorFrank
So Australia is a backwoods area? in comparison to ?
We do not engage in serious discussion? with people who know how things are ?
This is how Muslims are ?
Muslims rarely meet western people ?
You need to tell them how things are?
You need to educate Muslims so they stay religious?
And you call me backwood....
Amazing!


"percute et percute velociter"
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ArmeeGruppeSud

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: NOT SO HOT religious discussions :wink: Reply with quote

"When secularist rejected God to become atheists they also rejected his moral precepts"
US_Brake wrote (View Post):
AGS this is typical Cult-Leader type talk. Jim Jones type rap. You should really check yourself bro.


OK, i will check myself by the following definitions of "CULT"  Wink

___________________________________________________________________________
 
Definition of a Cult  (Ref. http://www.xenu.net/cic/definit.html)

Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following 5 characteristics:

1.  It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members                       X  
2.  It forms an elitist totalitarian society                                                                                 X
3.  Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma  X
4.  It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds, recruit people                      X
5.  Its wealth does not benefit its members or society                                                             X

DRAT , scored 0/5 there  Sad
___________________________________________________________________________
 
"What is the definition of a cult?"  (Ref. http://www.gotquestions.org/cult-definition.html)

The specific Christian definition of a cult is “a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of biblical truth.” In simpler terms, a cult is a group that teaches something that will cause a person to remain unsaved if he/she believes it. As distinct from a religion, a cult is a group that claims to be part of the religion, yet denies essential truth(s) of that religion. A Christian cult is a group that denies one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity, while still claiming to be Christian.

The two most common teachings of cults are that Jesus was not God and that salvation is not by faith alone. A denial of the deity of Christ results in Jesus’ death not being a sufficient payment for our sins. A denial of salvation by faith alone results in salvation being achieved by our own works, something the Bible vehemently and consistently denies.

DRAT, i failed this cultist defintion too  Sad
___________________________________________________________________________
CHRISTIAN DEFINITION  (Ref. http://www.religio.de/cudef.html)
CULT = Any group which deviates from Biblical, orthodox, historical Christianity. e.i. :
They deny:
The Deity of Christ;                
His physical resurrection;      
His personal and physical return to earth
and salvation by FAITH alone.
 
Hmmm, i dont deny any of those

DRAT, i failed the cultist defintion here too  Sad
___________________________________________________________________________
 
Oh well  Confused , it seems i will never make it as a "Cult leader"  Sad



Please don't label me with the term "Cult" (loaded term), when all i am is an average everyday evangelistic Christian, who just wants to see a lot of CC fans in enjoying paradise in eternity  Cool

US_Brake wrote (View Post):
First you lable "other" people, call them names like secularists, atheists (loaded terms)..
Are you speaking about my labelling MF as an "Atheist"?

Actually, MF labelled himself as an "Atheist"

Or are you saying that i should not use the term "atheist" at all, even when referring to "atheists"?

Should i replace the terms: "Atheist" & "Atheists" with the phrases: "person who does not believe that there is a God" & "People who do not believe that there is a God"?

If so, that would be so tiresome, i mean all that extra typing  Sad  

US_Brake wrote (View Post):
Of course "other people" have no moral precepts, if they did you wouldnt be special. You are not going to be accepted by a cult unless you share a belief that your groups is blessed by the creator of the universe and stand in stark contrast to the evil ones....
Oh i see now, does "other people" mean:  "People who do not belief that there is a God"?

Are you implying that i think i am "special", i hope not  Surprised

Actually, i think all people are special, esepcially as God created this entire universe just for us  Very Happy

Thats pretty special  Very Happy   Cool

Get this straight please, I do not think i am better than anyone else, nor am i self-righteous, as i have no righteousness of my own, at all (read my earlier posts)

US_Brake wrote (View Post):
The reality is that all humans have moral precepts and the are very similar reguardless of religious or ethnic background. The reality is that atheists, secularist, homosexuals, and devoted religious people are the same people, each just as right and good as the other. I know that is a hard concept to follow but think about it.
OK then, can we assume that you share approximately the same moral precepts as the rapists, murderers, fraudsters, robbers etc that reside in our societies (preferably behind bars)?


"Without the absolute morals handed to us by God, morality, for the atheist, becomes entirely subjective".
US_Brake wrote (View Post):
Morality is subjective.
.        For criminals it is.

They think it is morally ok for them to steal from other people (i dont mean atheists) and immoral for other people (i dont mean atheists) to steal from them.

That is a totally subjective morality system.


US_Brake wrote (View Post):
Human being invented morality, and continue to shape it with language and culture!.
Morals vary from culture to culture and invariably the belief systems of each culture have a strong influence on their inherant moral systems.

FACT: Beliefs systems influence morality systems.

A Religious belief's morality system includes defined moral absolutes, which creates a stable moral base.

A "People who do not belief that there is a God" morality system has no defined moral absolutes, therefore, their morality will depend on what makes them happy, or unhappy (subjectivity).

US_Brake wrote (View Post):
Humans also invented God.
No, God invented human beings.
Finite humans are neither powerful enough, nor sophisticated enough to create an infinite God  Smile


"Secular society, ruled by atheist moral precepts, will undoubtedly degenerate morally"
US_Brake wrote (View Post):
Is that to say that, Religious society, ruled by believer moral precepts, will undoubtedly advance morally?.

NO


US_Brake wrote (View Post):
Human being are going to behave as humans, reguardless of labels..
There is no disputing that  Smile

Though, people behave better when they are governed by moral systems set by a higher authority.

e.g. a child behaves better when its parent (older, wiser, smarter authority) sets down rules of behaviour.

Likewise, humanity behaves better when an older, wiser, smarter authority (God) sets down rules of behaviour  Wink


US_Brake wrote (View Post):
"It is prophesised in the Bible which has a 100% success rate"
Bible Prophesy is bullshit. Same with soothsayers, palm readers, psychics, etc.
Obviously you have little knowledge of, and have never properly studied, Biblical prophecies.
RE: soothsayers, palm readers, psychics, a great deal of what they say is BS and i personally recommend that you avoid them.


Just so that i finish on a point that we both agree on..........

CC3 ROCKS

CHEERS

AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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ArmeeGruppeSud

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

@ Fiestita & Blackstump

My young wife is impatiently waiting in bed again, so i must reply to your posts later


CHEERS

AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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US_Brake

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

How old is the planet earth?

Modern Science: 4.5 Billion years old

The Bible: under 10,000 years old

______________________________________-

What shape is the planet earth?

Modern Science: Round like a Ball

The Bible: Flat and square like a table

_______________________________________

If modern science is correct at 4.5 Billion years old, then the Bible is wrong at 10,000 years.

If God wrote the Bible, then he either didn't want humans to know the truth about the age of the planet he made, or he is real bad with math. Just think of how much more credibility God and the Bible would have if God had been accurate about the age and shape of the earth in his bestselling book. Genesis chapter one; 4.5 Billion years ago I created the planet earth from a massive ball of matter and placed it in motion around the sun. After watching evolution of mammals for a few Billion I mated with a Primate and Adam was born etc.

The truth is that our planet is 4.5 Billion years old. The men who wrote the Bible had no idea what the age of the planet was, they didn't even know that the earth was round.

How much credibility can you give to various authors of the Bible about anything they write if they are wrong about the age and shape of the earth?




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ArmeeGruppeSud

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
I though you, as you said God helped Red Army.

Excuse me!

Never said that, i wrote:
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
If not for His many interventions, the Axis would probably have won WW2.
...................................................................................
But the coldest winter, since Napoleon, saved Russiain 1941


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Until the Wehrmacht were frozen to a standstill, the Germans were TOTALLY WINNING, especially in the "blasting the shit out of them" department.

The Soviets were only saved by the bell (God's divine winter = the bell)
Fiestita wrote (View Post):
I totally disagree with that.
Of course you do  Smile

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
Engine freezes were equals to both
Then that means NO MOVEMENT, therefore, NO GERMAN ADVANCE!

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
and freezing casualties represented 10% in the worst case and affected both armies as well
The Soviets had their winter coats handy, the Germans had to get them from dead Russians and there was noot enough of them
RE the rest, i seriously don't have time to even read it all.

So do you really think the coldest winter since Napaleon's failed invasion of Russia had absolutely no disadvantaging effect on the invading Germans?

If so, you need a brain transplant urgently.

If you are smart enough to admit that those unusually diffucult condition may have slowed the Germans by at least 5%, then you will be smart enough to realise that 5% could make the difference from being South of Moscow, or North of Moscow.
It could also all make the difference between Leningrad falling or not.
Had those 2 key cities fallen before Christmas, it would have been such a massive morale crushing blow to the Red Army to which, though they had fought valiantly, sufferring one humiliating crushing defeat after another, i doubt they could have recovered from.  Sad


Fiestita wrote (View Post):
Do your really think that the Whermatch could be able to outmatch the USA superior industry?
You are not really envisaging the entire picture are you?

Look at it this way. do you think the 1940s USA could outmatch the industry of all Europe and Asia?

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
Seriously I don't see german industry building one ship a day, even controlling the whole european continent.
Seriously they would not need to, they can sink more ships a day than the Americans could build  Wink
Not to mention the Japanese Navy and the British Navy (unless they scuttled it upon surrender).

Imagine what good would the US navy be with 1000 U-boats off its eats coast and the whole Jap Navy off the West coast.

Like i said, its a "What if" topic, i dont have time to debate this trainwreck any further, goodbye.

CHEERS

AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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ArmeeGruppeSud

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votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

@ Blackstump & US_Brake

My young wife is waiting impatiently again and i am forbidden to answer more than 1 post a night, so i must reply to your posts later

CHEERS

AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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