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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MF_Church wrote (View Post):
God hates religion.  Man's attempt to reach God.  When God has already reached down and is still reaching... Smile
Amen Brother

That was a point i did consider bringing to MajorFrank'd attention ie:

The definition of "religion" is:
"Mans attempts to reach God"

Whereas, as you correctly testify, True Christianity is:

"Recognition and acceptance of God's successful reach to man"


MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
CHOOSE REALITY
IT WILL BE BETTER FOR ALL OF US

With that in mind.

What is eternal, not temporal, is the only true reality.

The material universe is only temporal...

More to the point, the material universe, our existence, is a figment of God's imagination



MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
And no I don't think I'll be adding a big bearded guy, flying dudes with wings, etc. to my thinking about the origin of the universe.
Well i am glad you don't, because if you did, you would be the only one!
If you think that is what Christians believe, then you are even more misguided than i thought.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Why forcibly baptize kids into a religion, why not give them a chance to choose for themselves when they are of age.
Exactly! i totally agree with that.
As a member of the Baptist Church, we believe in "Believer's Baptism" which means a person can only be Baptised by their own choice.

Keep your mind open for truth Frank

God bless you all

Cheers

AGS

______


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
 Whereas, as you correctly testify, True Christianity is:

"Recognition and acceptance of God's successful reach to man"


Endless love, understanding and knowledge:
If one recognise that god may be something grate, something with a knowledge and love and understanding that dwarfs even the greatest of humans.  Would such a grate creature only set up one tiny little road through Jesus to his “kingdom”?

Any normal human with limits:
Would parents only set up one tiny narrow road for there child to follow, and if not followed the child will be througn out?
We know a few parents who have ditched there child for not obeying the parents rules. That would be the norm, but only if we apply the hard core Christians view on how god operates his kingdom.  

IMO, believing that god is such a narrow-minded limited creature, that he set up only one single small path to his kingdom is to stupefy god. And we would also have to believ he’s even more cruel, narrow-minded and loveless than the most defect of the human parents who ditch there child for not following a narrow single path..!


/S
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
If one recognise that god may be something grate, something with a knowledge and love and understanding that dwarfs even the greatest of humans.  Would such a grate creature only set up one tiny little road through Jesus to his “kingdom”?
God is GREAT, with ifinite understanding and knowledge and has wisdom beyond our comprehension.

Now would such an amazing being set it up so people could go in any direction to find Him?

What would be the sense of that?  Confused

Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

Jesus Christ was God incarnate!

His sacrificial death, was therefore of infinite value!

For there to be numerous other ways, would be to make His sacrifice worthless!

What a preposterous idea!  Rolling Eyes

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Any normal human with limits:
God is neither human, nor limited. God cannot be compared with humanaity any more than humans can be compared with fish, or micro-organisms.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
And we would also have to believ he’s even more cruel, narrow-minded and loveless than the most defect of the human parents who ditch there child for not following a narrow single path..!
Oh, the finite man AT_Stalky sits in judgement of the infinite God.   Shocked

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
IMO, believing that god is such a narrow-minded limited creature, that he set up only one single small path to his kingdom is to stupefy god.
Of course the  temporal finite being AT_Stalky is far wiser than the eternal infinite God and can give God advice on how things should work (thats sarcasm Sheldon).  Razz

@ AT_Stalky
God does things His way, He knows whats best. God has been around forever and gave creation and humanity much thought before initiating creation (we have ignition,.....BANG!).

God has done things the way He has done them because it was the best option chosen from a possibly infinite number of options. Humanity has neither the intelect, nor understanding, nor the wisdom to comprehend the enormity, complexity and reasoning of Gods brilliant plan.

We are in no position to judge His ways. We can just accept that Jesus sacrificed his mortal life on the cross to pay the penalty for our imperfections.

God sent His Son to us. We can accept His Son and God will accept us.  Smile

If we reject the Son, we reject the Father also, and bring His rejection upon ourselves.  Crying or Very sad

We are either for God, or against God

If we are for God, we will accept His Son Jesus the Christ and then its all good  Very Happy

@ AT_Stalky & MajorFrank

Hope we will meet at God's place in the afterlife  Cool

cheers

AGS

_____


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Now would such an amazing being set it up so people could go in any direction to find Him?
What would be the sense of that?  Confused

Actually, Even the old Romans understood that more is better then less, remember the proverb: “All roads leads to Rom”

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

If you think of it, if your on a sphere like the earth, and you go in 2 opposite directions, you will actually end up at the same place. Thinking of it, it doesn’t matter what direction you go, any direction lead to the exact same place..
Just “maybe” god can actually handle more than one thing at the time…  


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Any normal human with limits:
God is neither human, nor limited. God cannot be compared with humanaity any more than humans can be compared with fish, or micro-organisms.

Actually, if you look at the microbiology, it reviles that we all use the same blue prints, possible made by one guy. So of coarse we can be compared.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
And we would also have to believ he’s even more cruel, narrow-minded and loveless than the most defect of the human parents who ditch there child for not following a narrow single path..!
Oh, the finite man AT_Stalky sits in judgement of the infinite God.   Shocked

And:
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
IMO, believing that god is such a narrow-minded limited creature, that he set up only one single small path to his kingdom is to stupefy god.
Of course the  temporal finite being AT_Stalky is far wiser than the eternal infinite God and can give God advice on how things should work

No not really, you see, I just made a logical analogy with the parent and child (was that hard to understand? My English of course…), and it turned out that if god operates as you say he does, he must be more cruel than the most defect human parent. And we would call that parent cruel and loveless, and as we are not operating under a double standard, we would have to call god the same thing: “cruel”, simply for he do the same thing as the defect parent.. But, I don’t believe god only has one road to his kingdom, because I don’t like some others, believe he’s cruel and simple minded and rigid as a lump of concrete…  


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
(thats sarcasm Sheldon).  Razz

Its actually irony, Börje.. But who’s counting…



ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
God does things His way, He knows whats best. God sent His Son to us. We can accept His Son and God will accept us.  Smile

Oh I see. You’re a Baptist? and you guys know how god operates... I see I see. I must learn more.. ::


Link

Cool, god hates 99.999% of all humans, and they have found that in the bible! Impressive, with quotes and everything.. I just have to learn more…

Oh, cool. Thers a ton of things the baptist say god loves and hates and how things should be done, Link::
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=baptist+church+hate&oq=baptist+church+hate&aq=f&aqi=g-m3&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=10030l12901l0l13057l5l4l0l0l0l0l249l670l0.3.1l4l0
 
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
We are either for God, or against God

hmhm

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
If we are for God, we will accept His Son Jesus the Christ and then its all good  Very Happy

Yeh, I saw the vids, I got it


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Hope we will meet at God's place in the afterlife  Cool

May I please have a brochure and I will get back to you,
(thats sarcasm Börje, or was it..)


Last edited by AT_Stalky on Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Now would such an amazing being set it up so people could go in any direction to find Him?
What would be the sense of that?  Confused
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Actually, Even the old Romans understood that more is better then less, remember the proverb: “All roads leads to Rom”
Thats because the Romans built all the roads from Rome.
Your comment was irrelevant in so many ways i have no time to list them,... here is one:
Roads exist in the physical material world and none lead to God in the Spiritual realm.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
If you think of it, if your on a sphere like the earth, and you go in 2 opposite directions, you will actually end up at the same place. Thinking of it, it doesn’t matter what direction you go, any direction lead to the exact same place..
Yes, back to where you started (provided you dont deviate in direction).
Going around in circles will never lead to God  Rolling Eyes

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Just “maybe” god can actually handle more than one thing at the time…  
Of course He can, but God knows of your inability to cope with complexity so he gave you one simple path to Himself

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
God is neither human, nor limited. God cannot be compared with humanaity any more than humans can be compared with fish, or micro-organisms.
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Actually, if you look at the microbiology, it reviles that we all use the same blue prints, possible made by one guy. So of coarse we can be compared.
Yes, the code that all DNA is written with is one of God's masterpieces  Very Happy
Clearly what i meant went over your head.............
now i shall spell it out for you.........
The comparitive diference between tiny, finite human inteligence and God's infinte intelect is far greater than the difference between, lets say, Einstein's inteligence, and the inteligence of plankton.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
and it turned out that if god operates as you say he does, he must be more cruel than the most defect human parent. And we would call that parent cruel and loveless, and as we are not operating under a double standard, we would have to call god the same thing: “cruel”, simply for he do the same thing as the defect parent.. But, I don’t believe god only has one road to his kingdom, because I don’t like some others, believe he’s cruel and simple minded and rigid as a lump of concrete…  
Now please explain where you find the cruelty of God in what i wrote about Him?

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
(thats sarcasm Sheldon).  Razz

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Its actually irony, Börje.. But who’s counting…
Actualliy it was sarcasm, so you are wrong again.. But who’s counting… Wink

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Oh I see. You’re a Baptist? and you guys know how god operates... I see I see. I must learn more.. ::
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Link
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Cool, god hates 99.999% of all humans, and they have found that in the bible! Impressive, with quotes and everything.. I just have to learn more…
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Oh, cool. Thers a ton of things the baptist say god loves and hates and how things should be done,
PMSL  Laughing   Rolling Eyes
The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult and have no friends in the Australian Baptist Union of which my local church is a member.
The Wesburro church of Hate says all Australians are sodomites and they hate Australians so much that they were cheering when people were dying during the bushfires and floods we had recently.
But i am sure that you are not stupid enough to think the Westborro's beliefs represent the beliefs of all baptist worldwide,.....are you?
Certainly hope not, i am sure you are just being silly again..........  Rolling Eyes

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Oh I see. You’re a Baptist? and you guys know how god operates... I see I see. I must learn more.. ::
Just to set you on the right path, here is a website that is about real Baptists
www.baptist.org.au/
Since you seem to want to focus on one single Baptist church congregation to gauge the beliefs of myself as a Baptist, here is the website for my local church: www.vhbc.org.au/

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
dont give up on me AGS,
Fear not, i shall not give up on you  Very Happy  despite the seemingly deranged state of your mind (God can even heal you!)

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
im trying,
Yes, you are very trying  Rolling Eyes

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
but its so hard...
What videos are you watching now?
Thats not youtube, thats redtube!  Shocked

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
If we are for God, we will accept His Son Jesus the Christ and then its all good  Very Happy
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Yeh, I saw the vids, I got it
Not sure what you got, i didn't bother checking the videos because i have already seen enough of the Westborro church to know they are full of BS

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Hope we will meet at God's place in the afterlife  Cool
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
May I please have a brochure and I will get back to you,
(thats sarcasm Börje, or was it..)
If not, the Brochure is in Rev.21

cheers

AGS

_____


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

AGS,

why don't you go and attack the other religions like the WBC. Or are non-religious your no. 1 enemy?
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southern_land

Rep: 142.4
votes: 14


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

bah hahaha


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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Ok AT_Stalky your last post proved that you are clearly not interested in any inteligent discussion on the topic, you would rather just be silly  Rolling Eyes  

I see, you view of things is serious and right, and anyone who have opposing views are just silly and not intelligent..
Impressive arguments.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Please place you silly response here>.........................  

Se a bow answer--


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Thats because the Romans built all the roads from Rome.


This debate is not about physical road construction. The idea that you missed, was that thers not just one singe path that leads to... the center.. or ..god..

All roads lead to Rome definition: All paths or activities lead to the center of things.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Your comment was irrelevant in so many ways i have no time to list them,... here is one: Roads exist in the physical material world and none lead to God in the Spiritual realm.

We was not debating physical road construction, but spiritual things,  See answer a bow----


Okay, did you got the roman road thing from the same place you found this:
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
1)It was only the ludicrous suggestion that churches "promoted wars" to which i was objecting and you have given absolutely no support for that false accusation.

And:
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
2) Don't mention the "Crusades" either, the leaders who misled the people were not christians, they just used the peoples faith to trick them into wars of plunder. "]  

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
3) The very 1st city sacked, butchered and plundered by the crusaders was a christian city!

1)How many Crusades where there? I mean, I count at least 9..  
2)Okay, the wars was not stared by Christian? Dint Pope Urban II started one.. and dint pope Gregorious VIII start one, dint the pope Eugenius III start one.. and pope.. and pope.. start one… But then of cause we can’t call the pope a Christian can we?
3)Okay, so that was the MO of ALL the crusades, (c) AGS “-first we plunder a Christian city, then we continue…”



ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
If you think of it, if your on a sphere like the earth, and you go in 2 opposite directions, you will actually end up at the same place. Thinking of it, it doesn’t matter what direction you go, any direction lead to the exact same place..

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Yes, back to where you started (provided you dont deviate in direction).

Borrow you neighbours football, and set your finger at any point on it, then go out in multi directions and you will end up at the exact opposite side of the football, that’s the focal and the meeting point. ...


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Now please explain where you find the cruelty of God in what i wrote about Him?
Please place you silly response here>.........................

Where did I explicitly say that you said god was cruel?
But if he operates like you say he does, you know the "parent – child analogy"… Then we would call the parent cruel, and if we don’t operate under double standard, we must also call god cruel because he does what the cruel parent does..  
So if that how you say god operates.. Me, I doubt that.


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Actualliy it was sarcasm, so you are wrong again.  Razz


OK I have to belive you.,

Sarcasm: definition for you: “In sarcasm, ridicule or mockery is used harshly, often crudely and contemptuously, for destructive purposes. It may be used in an indirect manner, and have the form of irony, as in,...... ”

So you’re delibreately being destructive toward me? Is that what you confess to?

Relax AGS, implicitly its irony..

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
But i am sure that you are not stupid enough to think the Westborro's beliefs represent the beliefs of all baptist worldwide,.....are you?


Thanx for clearing that out AGS. I was a bit suspicious I must confess, there was something wrong in the vids... I should have understood and seen the warning signes: "all the sucking up to god", and all the Hallelujah and...
Tragic, they think god is of a personality type who likes when ppl suck up to him..
I was taken on a ride by a false prophet, I also believe god prefers a more dignified relation with his creations.      


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult

"hate cult”..  Yeh grate idea, lets label them we dislike or dont agree with ..  .  


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult and have no friends in the Australian Baptist Union of which my local church is a member.

So you mean that hard core christens may be on the wrong track, even though they use all the impressive quote from the bible and talk in gods name, and say what god likes and how god operates?
Hm, what can we lean from this,

Take care AGS, may god bless you

/Them
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
AGS,

why don't you go and attack the other religions like the WBC. Or are non-religious your no. 1 enemy?
MajorFrank!

You appear to have totally lost your grasp of reality  Shocked

Firstly, i am attacking nobody, please withdraw your malicious false accusation.

The truth is, i am merely defending my faith from attacks, including your attacks.

Was it not you who began this thread with accusations (attacks) against christians?

Secondly, now why don't you go and attack the other religions like Judaism, islam hinduism shintuism, taoism or Budhists?  Wink
Or are christians your no. 1 enemy?  Razz

Cheers  Very Happy

AGS

_____


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Okay, here we have the next logic analogy:

Setting: Parents and child - > God the creator of humans.
Logic: 1 comes before 2. 2 is more than 1.
Limits: No double standard is allowed, if A does something “bad”, we must also recognise that if B does the same thing, he’s also ”bad”.

So, according to hard core Christians, the bible is holy, and through Jesus we reach gods kingdom.

Eternal wisdom, and love and endless knowledge:  
By accepting Jesus as our saviour we may enter god’s kingdom. If not, we are axed. Problems, the first bibles may have been on the market in the 400 century?? The bibles was few.. Supply was limited.. But this don’t bother god, he just axed all human souls that had not accepted Jesus as there saviour..
The instructions book god has in his head, is called: “The holy bible” in short he calls the instructions manual the: "Bible"


The parent and the children:
For an unknown reason, the father draw up rules that his children must follow, or the child will be axed at a given age.
The father doesn’t wright down the rules in a book nor communicate this to the child. At a given age, the father judge the childNo1, and as the child has not obeyed the rules his father has drawn up in his head though not communicated, he axes the childNo1. This must be the right thing to do, according to the hard core Christians, for that’s what god would do in this situation to someone who hasn’t “submitted” to Jesus ..

The instructions book the father has in his head, is called: “How My Children Shall Suck Up To Me And Obey Me” in short he call the instructions manual: HMCSSUTMAOM

Lets continue, times goes, and the HMCSSUTMAOM is now printed and in grater supply:
The father now has many children, at different places on the planet. Let’s say for arguments sake that the father is an explorer and meet many women.

Child No2 is given a copy of the newly made book named: HMCSSUTMAOM, the child is also given schooling, so he can now read. He also has all the time in the world to studie it as his mother is rich. There’s also plenty grownups that tells childNo2 the importance of reading the HMCSSUTMAOM and totally submit to it, or else his father will axe him at a given age.
The father comes to the childNo2 at the given age, and observe the child. It’s clear that the child follow the instructions in HMCSSUTMAOM, thus he doesn’t axe the childNo2. According to the father, this is a good child.

At another place on the planet, childNo3 lives. It’s a poor nation, BUT they actually have a copy of the HMCSSUTMAOM in the local book store. But, the childNo3 is the single child in the family, and he provides for his sick mother and old grandparents. The small income he brings home is barely enough to provide for em all. He has neither the time nor the money to pay for an education, the  spare time available he use by relaxing and drinking a few home brew beers… And no grownup has told childNo3 the importance of reading his fathers instruction manual: HMCSSUTMAOM..
The father come to visit childNo3, at that give age, and observe the child. Its clear that the childNo3 doesn’t suck up to the father, and don’t follow the instructions found in HMCSSUTMAOM. According to the father, the childNo3 is a lost child, he axes the child. According to the father, this is a bad child.
This must be the right thing to do, according to the hard core Christians, for that’s what god would do in this situation to someone who hasn’t “submitted” to Jesus ..


Again we move even further away, to the jungle where the “nature” people lives. Here lives childNo4, non of em ever heard of the father who just came by the village one night, and nine month later…
This kid has grown, and is now like most kidz, playing and are a joy to his mother. And he does help her sometime when she nagged him a bit. Actually, many of his friends come to him for advice, and the old man in the village say that, one day, perhaps this childNo4 will be a spiritual leader in the village. (Oh, a heathen spiritual leader according to Christian hard corers). Anyway, non here ever heard of the HMCSSUTMAOM, non can read in this jungle, yeh they can read natures signs, but not the..
Anyway, the father come to visit childNo4, at that give age, and observe the child. It’s clear that the childNo4 doesn’t suck up to the father, and don’t follow the instructions to be found in HMCSSUTMAOM. According to the father, the childNo4 is a lost child, According to the father, this is a bad child. As the father is about to axes the bad child, childNo4 argues, that his father is unfair, as he wasn’t told about the HMCSSUTMAOM, nor given a copy of the HMCSSUTMAOM, and wasn’t taught to read the HMCSSUTMAOM…
The father say, sorry ChildNo4, this is the way I operates my parenthood. Axing the childNo4 must be the right thing to do, according to the hard core Christians, for that’s what god would do in this situation to someone who hasn’t “submitted” to Jesus ..

IMO, the father is unfair and cruel for not giving the HMCSSUTMAOM to all children, and for not providing time and schooling to all of em.
Now, it seems that this is how the hard core Christians mean that god operates his business, if that’s so, wouldn’t god be unfair and cruel?

Why do I doubt that god operates like this, I don’t believe he’s unfair or cruel.


Last edited by AT_Stalky on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:55 pm; edited 4 times in total
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
I see, you view of things is serious and right, and anyone who have opposing views are just silly and not intelligent..
To put it in simple terms,....no

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Thats because the Romans built all the roads from Rome.
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
This debate is not about physical road construction. The idea that you missed, was that thers not just one singe path that leads to... the center.. or ..god..
Actually i did not miss that.
The statement that All roads lead to Rome is only true of Roman built roads.
Your analogy would not be silly if you were suggesting

All roads built by Rome, to Rome, lead to Rome Thus: All paths to God, made by God, lead to God

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
However, these Christians, they uphold Jesus as their guiding idol and promote stuff like wars
Re: Churches promoting wars

Tense = present

evidence = nil

Ok, if you want to be silly

Statement: Atheist are bloodthirsty murderous villains

Where shall i start............

Don't have to look far back in time

Evidence: Adolf Hitler

Evidence: Joseph Stalin

Evidence: Pol Pot

There, argument proven  Rolling Eyes


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
If you think of it, if your on a sphere like the earth, and you go in 2 opposite directions, you will actually end up at the same place. Thinking of it, it doesn’t matter what direction you go, any direction lead to the exact same place..

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Yes, back to where you started (provided you dont deviate in direction).
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Borrow you neighbours football, and set your finger at any point on it, then go out in multi directions and you will end up at the exact opposite side of the football, that’s the focal and the meeting point. ..
Great analogy now in this concept of reaching God, must you split yourself in two and continue in opposite directions until you meet yourself, then you have found God?
Actually, on a sphere, if you continue any any direction, you will never end up in any particular spot, you will just go around in circles.

For your line of thinking to have any creedence, God has to be on the opposite side of the sphere.

Seriously, if God iis so easy to reach because you can go in any direction, believe any religion or disbelieve everything, live any way you like with no regard at all for anything including God, then there is no point any in going in any direction, or having any morals.
Hmmm....., then do the paths lying cheating, stealing killing, raping all lead to God also?

Sorry, but the any and all directions way to God concept does not hold water, does not float, it has nothing
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?
The question still stands

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Now please explain where you find the cruelty of God in what i wrote about Him?
Please place you silly response here>.........................

[quote="AT_Stalky";p="62984"]Where did I explicitly say that you said god was cruel?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
But if he operates like you say he does, you know the "parent – child analogy"
Excuse me, the parent child analogy was yours.
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Then we would call the parent cruel, and if we don’t operate under double standard, we must also call god cruel because he does what the cruel parent does.. So if that how you say god operates..
No, thats entirely your words
My question still remains unanswered
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Now please explain where you find the cruelty of God in what i wrote about Him?
The question still stands

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Actualliy it was sarcasm, so you are wrong again.  Razz

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
So you’re delibreately being destructive toward me? Is that what you confess to?
Relax AT_Stalky, no need to get in a huff
Sarcasm: definition for you: the use of remarks which clearly mean the opposite of what they say,  
Sarcasm: definition for you: satirical remarks intended to amuse


ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
But i am sure that you are not stupid enough to think the Westborro's beliefs represent the beliefs of all baptist worldwide,.....are you?
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Thanx for clearing that out AGS
Your welcome  Smile  

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult and have no friends in the Australian Baptist Union of which my local church is a member.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
So you mean that hard core christens may be on the wrong track, even though they use all the impressive quote from the bible and talk in gods name, and say what god likes and how god operates?
To put it in simple terms,....no
What i will say is, the Bible can be misinterpreted badly, the Westborro church is an example of that.
Have never heard them use the words Love and God in the same sentence.
Rather you hear them regularly talk about God and hate.
It would appear that their God is a God of hate.
This is diametrically opposed to the Christian God, God is Love (1John4:8,16).
It is sometime the case that people will read into the Bible what they want to believe.
Just like some people will often believe what they want to believe:
e.g. One can get to God by going in any direction  Razz

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Hm, what can we lean from this,
That you should not totally misinterpret everything i write

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
"hate cult”..  Yeh grate idea, lets label them we dislike or dont agree with ..
Now i doubt if you even watched the videos
Have not noticed much in the way of sucking up to God among the Westburrians, they do preach a lot of hate, or did you not notice?

Ok, now i will answer AT_Stalky style
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
"hate cult”..  Yeh grate idea, lets label them we dislike or dont agree with ..
So you think the Westburro Church preach and express love to everyone

Thankyou for your blessing AT_Stalky
may god bless you too bro

cheers

AGS

______


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
AGS,

why don't you go and attack the other religions like the WBC. Or are non-religious your no. 1 enemy?
MajorFrank!

You appear to have totally lost your grasp of reality  Shocked

Firstly, i am attacking nobody, please withdraw your malicious false accusation.

The truth is, i am merely defending my faith from attacks, including your attacks.

Was it not you who began this thread with accusations (attacks) against christians?

Secondly, now why don't you go and attack the other religions like Judaism, islam hinduism shintuism, taoism or Budhists?  Wink
Or are christians your no. 1 enemy?  Razz

Cheers  Very Happy

AGS

_____


Yes they are. Never had a problem with a Jewish person, a Muslim, or a Hindu, etc. Had plenty of problems with Christians.

Also, I think people should start to fight religion in their own religion/culture first. I know the American way is to go to the other side of the planet and bomb some brown people and call that 'fighting against religion' (Islam). How about starting a little closer to home.

Also part 2, I'm pretty sure that if you are able to convince yourself of creationism and all that stuff, you'll deny all Christian involvement in wars, genocides, etc. in history. So why bother.

Edit. I'll toss you one though.

http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm
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Blackstump

Rep: 24.5
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Can we see some scientific proof of creationism? or is it just theory?


"percute et percute velociter"
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Yes they are. Never had a problem with a Jewish person, a Muslim, or a Hindu, etc. Had plenty of problems with Christians.
Well thats probably because you only attack Christians.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
I'm pretty sure that if you are able to convince yourself of creationism and all that stuff, you'll deny all Christian involvement in wars, genocides, etc. in history.
Only the truth convinces me of creation
There is no denying christian invovlement in wars.
Many Christians have served in the armies of many countries, on both sides in both world wars and other wars.
As far as christians being warmongers, that is pure fantasy.
Humans are warlike creatures, because of the sinful human nature.
Some of these corrupt individuals have used the people's religion to influence them to fight their wars.
If you are gullible enough to believe the anti-christian propaganda and use it as an excuse to reject God's generous offer of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, then that is your eternal loss.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Edit. I'll toss you one though.
http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm
LOL
People can be so gullible when iit come to believing what suits them.
Hitler was no christian
Being baptised as a catholic in infancy does not a christian make.
It takes a christian to know a christian
"You will know them by their fruit" (Matthew 7:16.20)
"love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, & self-control" (Galatians 5:22f)
Hitler's fruit proved that he was most certainly not a christian
After reading your article it was clear that it only proved Hitler used his catholic background and christian rhetoric for political gain because he knew Germany had a predominantly Christian populatioin.
Hitler hated christianity!
There were thousands of Christian clergy in Dacau concentration camp
Hitler was a darwinist atheist and planned to eradicate christianity after the war
Here, i'll throw you 3 back
http://www.puritanfellowship.com/2007/11/adolf-hitler-hated-christianity.html
http://www.trueorigin.org/hitler01.asp
http://romanchristendom.blogspot.com.au/2010/01/for-record-hitler-hated-christianity.html


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Blackstump wrote (View Post):
Can we see some scientific proof of creationism? or is it just theory?
Yes you can  Very Happy

Personally, i don't like the word "creationism" but the proof of creation by God.

Just open your eyes, mind and heart.

Look in every and all directions.

The proof is everywhere from microscopic level and out to the stars

It would be easy for me to write a 10-20,000 word essay in answer to your question albeit the constraints of time (my wife has gone to bed and is waiting (gulp).

I'll just slip a quick one in,....

All codes are written by somebody, right, now ask yourself, who wrote the DNA code?
(a code so brilliant that modern science's best computers still have not completely figured out)

cheers

AGS

______


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

AGS,

well why can't you be happy with your own personal faith, why the need for huge global organisations that have throughout history forcibly spread Christianity at the point of a sword? Anything me or atheists have done pales in comparison.

Did you know that the Vatican has one of the most significant intelligence gathering systems in place, second only to the military superpowers (USA, Russia, etc.). Why would a nice, benign organisation need these capabilities?

Btw all the stuff in the Hitler - link I posted is fact. Hitler was brought up as a Christian, same with Stalin who even went into priesthood. And also, paganism (which your link claims Hitler professed to later in his life) is also a form of religion.
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AT_Stalky

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Not sure what you got, i didn't bother checking the videos because i have already seen enough of the Westborro church to know they are full of BS

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
What i will say is, the Bible can be misinterpreted badly, the Westborro church is an example of that.


Are you sure about that AGS? Do You believing in the holy bible AGS?  

Well the vids clearly shows that WB Baptist hates gay people, and they do that because god hates gay ppl, and it says so in the bible..

Seems WB Baptist are right, Gods issues with homosexuals go back a long time:
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13)

And gods hate seem to continue:

"Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. (Romans 1:24-32)”
 

To read the full text click:

Hidden: 
“So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  
Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.
 
When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32)”


I also found this:

The falsification of the bible, it seems in some newer bible text, some or even all of gods cruelness has been washed out, wonder why? Here it seems that god conduct collective cruel punishment to a whole town, just becoause some dont listen to a stranger and dont take him in to his house..? :

This is Luke 6:11 in different versions, the first one is the literary translation, the others are the newer versions:

Luke 6:11 literary translation:
“and as many as may not receive you, nor hear you, going out thence, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony to them; verily I say to you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom or Gomorrah in a day of judgment than for that city.' “

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“In some places the people will not take you in. They will not listen to what you say. When you leave such a town, shake the dust off your feet. That will be a warning to them. I tell you the truth. On the day when people are judged, the people in that town will be punished harder than the people in the country of Sodom and Gomorrah. “

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“If you come to a town where people do not welcome you or will not listen to you, leave it and shake the dust off your feet. That will be a warning to them!”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And wherever people will not welcome you or listen to what you have to say, leave them and shake the dust off your feet as a protest against them!”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And whatsoever place shall not receive you nor hear you, departing thence, shake off the dust which is under your feet for a testimony to them”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And whatsoever place shall not receive you, and they hear you not, as ye go forth thence, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony unto them. “

Luke 6:11 later versions::
“If a place doesn’t welcome you or listen to you, as you leave, shake the dust off your feet as a witness against them.”

Cant help it AGS, it seems that one can’t trust the “good” Christian people who does the bible translations, it seems they indulge in falsification of gods holy bible..

Don’t this pose a problem when christans make all them quotes of the bible that they mean is gods words and his will and rules… ?? I mean, the immediate question that popes up in my heads is, what version does he quote, what whitewash has it gone through, or even bleach baths has it been soaking in??

Is it possible a problem to be a literal believer of the bible, I mean, the question will always be: literal believer of which bible version...  

/S
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Wow.  I AM not the only one who has been busy this work week (and I just got back to CCS forum now.  :)

Quik ~review~   Words are mighty.  And God's words would be that And more!  

Been alot of Sword Swinging in here Wink  

Solomon's Sword divided wonderfully because of it's DISCERNMENT.  

If God the Father SENT God the (Holy) Spirit because God the Son asked Him to when He returned back to heaven... so as

to DWELL among mankind (btw... that is Eternal LIFE)  

to HELP(er) each who open their hearts (spirit)

to discern which words are True(th) or which words are from God or not.  

God's gift (of the Holy Spirit) first leaves us not orphan & 2nd aquaints us with the Author or Inspirator of the words of script.

Quik Lesson of bible MESSage.  

Mankind fell.  (Away from God)  

How?  About 1/3rd of another race of beings (1st ones created by God) fell (angels) and their Leader help create the 2nd falling away.  

Soooo our new god or creator of this mess gets most of our directed 'distain' at the original Creator.  

And sooooo the bible has been written to simply tell us that mankind needs a resCUREr and that One will be sent.

:)

Now God the Holy Spirit works also outside of those without Him.  PLUS, in the original design mankind still has ears that can hear Truth (discern) Like our tongue can taste.  (discern: good from bad tastes).

Line upon line, Precept upon precept (preception) is how God Teaches(er).  Words. Ears.

So lets not cut off Ears as we 'share'.  Wink  We need em ! to discern with.  Very Happy


Last edited by MF_Church on Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

God made Mose's brother Aaron a leader of His priests.  The High Priest.

Now today, in God's 2nd or 'New' agreement (covenant) He made a New High Priest.  One that will last forever.  A full man and fully God.  :)

So the 1st is fullfilled in the 2nd.  

Why?

Mankind needed to Restart.

The 1st Adam needed a new Adam.

The 2nd Adam calls to the 1st (and his descendance)

* Jesus said, "Let him who has EARS, to hEAR...  the call,  (of the HOLY Spirit) to "Come".  (to Him/Jesus).

:)
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
well why can't you be happy with your own personal faith,
Actuall, i am   Very Happy

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
why the need for huge global organisations that have throughout history forcibly spread Christianity at the point of a sword?
{A}There are no such organisations. They don't exist and if they did, i would not be part of them, your question is quite irrelevant  Rolling Eyes

{B}You keep delving into the past, especially into the Dark Ages a period in history when true christianity was virtually non-existant.
The pure Christianity that was present in the 1st 3-5 centuries AD did not appear again notably until the Reformation in the 1500s.
You can rant on all you like about the sins of the Catholic church during the dark ages and it has absolutely no relationship to modern evangelical christianity and my faith.

{C} So why do you persist with irrelaveant questions?

{D} Throughout history, Christianity has spread, without force despite various groups trying to stop christianity with force!.
Yes, only during the "Dark Ages" did some christianish groups (ie teutonic knights and Spanish Conquistadors) spread christianish beliefs by force (which is totally against the christian way).

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Anything me or atheists have done pales in comparison.
Even all of the worst atrocities of the Catholic church in 2000 years, combined, pales in comparisons to the crimes against humanity of of just one of the modern atheist monsters:
Communist USSR under Stalin and Nazi Germany under Hitler, each on their own, were responsible for more atrocities, deaths etc than 2000 years of the corrupt Catholic Church (that includes the Spanish inquisition and the Teutonic Knights)

So your statement so so incredibly wrong it is ludicrous!

You should actually do some thorough research before you write uninformed things on a forum.

In just the last hundred years atheistic regimes have exacted a cataclysmic toll in crimes against humanity.

Also Maoist China alone would have butchered more people in its own country than the corrupt Catholic church did in 2000 years.
Then there is Pol Pot (another christian you say?  Rolling Eyes  Oh, he spent a year in a Catholic school, that proves he is a genuine Christian LOL) Nicolae Ceau?escu, WHAT!?, his mother went to church once, so Nicolae Ceau?escu must have been a christian  Rolling Eyes

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Did you know that the Vatican has one of the most significant intelligence gathering systems in place, second only to the military superpowers (USA, Russia, etc.).
Not my concern, i am a Protestant, not a Catholic and i am very critical of Catholicsm because it has been corrupted by human and pagan thinking.
The Catholic Church is not what Christianity is about, it has nothing to do with me or my faith and i have nothing to do with it.
If you have a problem with Catholicism, thats fine, so do i, we are on the same side (kind of)  Smile

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Btw all the stuff in the Hitler - link I posted is fact.
With the notable exception of all the conclusions, which are 100% wrong! You will find far more facts and actual correct conclusions in the links i provided.
Hitler was not a christian, he was an enemy of the church!
If you are gullible enough to believe the anti-christian propaganda and use it as an excuse to reject God's generous offer of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, then that is your eternal loss.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Hitler was brought up as a Christian, same with Stalin who even went into priesthood.
Both Hitler and Stalin are like you MajorFrank, they had christianish upbringings but both left that behind and were definately,  unquestionably secular atheists throughout their political careers. Hitler and Stalin were not christians, they were enemies of the church. If you are gullible enough to believe the anti-christian propaganda and use it as an excuse to reject God's generous offer of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, then that is your eternal loss.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
And also, paganism (which your link claims Hitler professed to later in his life) is also a form of religion.
Yes, paganism is a form of religion.
Though you misread the fact that Hitler did not believe in it, he just wanted to use it to replace christianity.
Hitler was a fanatic of all things "German" so he wanted to institutionalise the old Germanic religion.

If you are interested in the actual TRUTH (if you can handle it), genuine Christians have not been the cause for a single war, or massacre, or notable atrocity, ever!

Generally, Christians have been the victims of such atrocities.

To this very day, thousands of christians are the victims of persecution and hundreds are martyred every year worldwide.

http://www.persecution.net/
http://www.allaboutfollowingjesus.org/voice-of-the-martyrs.htm
http://martyrsforchrist.blogspot.com.au/
http://www.persecution.com.au/

So realy, you have things completely back to front!

Cheers

AGS

_____


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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