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Will I ever find a devoted opponent
Yes
83%
 83%  [ 5 ]
No
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Devoted?
16%
 16%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 6

AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

""inflicting heavy casualties to the allies""

Dima, you should not believe anything that’s is written on the page the link goes to.

I assume that’s a ONLY a German propaganda view of the war.. Might as well read:



I know UK is winning that war!

Razz

Hehe, have fun with yer GC men, and plz keep us informed how things develope.

Very Happy
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tigercub

Rep: 23.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:21 am Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

very nice AAR but does not help much 17th is a long way from the finnish line and the germans just run out of stuff...Mikwarleo claims allied will win if both players are the same...i am thinking the same... both set Elite as you say it needs to be...what do you think Dima & AT?


The best Target is the one you just Hit!

Started with CC1 Demo
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Hi there, Plz excuse the long answer:

If both are the same?
Strong defender/assault, week defender/assault, strong strategy weak strategi, all in many levels.
No two players are the same.


Mik is a v strong player, one of the best. I bet he win most GC no matter what side he plays.  


Dint CC_Co play someone TRSM as German and he defeated the UK almost totaly?
This suggest that players skill affect the outcome of a GC.  One may assume CC_CO to be strong defender then, and the UK in that GC was not that strong. Thus outcome.

Also, if I got it right, CC_CO see him self a strong defender, and you Tiger as a strong assaulter?
That also suggest that if UK is played by CC_CO and Ge by Tiger, then that will not have the same relative strength ratios as if it was played the other way around. Assulting is always more chalange than defending.  

Effective strength ratios are thus complex. But there may be a tilt in one side or the other, perhaps toward UK?

Dima may answer better for he’s the king of the mod.

But I always argued that a mod GC should NOT be balanced, as its NOT an re-enactment one is doing.
Looking at the battle one is making a game out of, would thus suggest that the two sides leadership was using there resources …. equally effective… That’s a strong assumption.
We can assume that with different leaders and doctrines the outcome in any operation would not be the same. Or one may have to draw the conclusion that the leaders and doctrines don’t matters. Why play then?    

I always argued that a “realism” of a mod should not aim to have the same outcome as the operation it is portraying but instead it should be realistic in the resources available and the resources performance. Then, let the players see what they can do with the resources and there own doctrines and see if they can change history.

Thus IMO a balanced mod is not realistic. It’s a mistake to believe correlation is the same as causality and realism.

If the UK is winning the TRSM more often than Germans then that might suggest that the Germans combat effectiveness was higher than the UKs.  And we, the CC-armshare generals are more equally combat effective in general, thus the outcome.

Dima is the data maker of TRSM, he can answer.
Thus this is my thoughts only in general.

Phuu, that was a long answer.


Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

tigercub wrote (View Post):
in gameranger i am tigercub!

VL setup as normal.. but some i added was that snipers can setup any were because they cannot take VLs and makes them more useful. what GMT times can you play?

i am of the opinion that in trsm the allied are stronger than german in a H2H game i will ask a few more vet players how they feel about the balance of  Trsm


Tiger



Just to set out things in stone, this is the normal VL rule for you too?

Victory Location Deploy Rule

Units can only be deployed in areas which are connected to a Victory Location directly only. Diagonally connected deployment zones are considered out of bounds. See this example: http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=265&mode=thread&order=0&thold=-1
 

Sniper deployment

In regard to the snipers, should we agree to them being able to deploy wherever they can, I have sadly never played with that house-rule, so I am not sure how much a negative effect it will have on the advancing player? I can imagine the impact will be quite significant, due to the huge benefit from the observational possibilities alone, not to mention the fact the sniper deployed somewhat within an advancing players setup, will have an effect on where to deploy at-guns and mortars. So yes, snipers will be increased more useful with such house-rule, but since I have no experience with it, I have to say no to the idea.

However, even without using the sniper house-rule, snipers are really deadly already; both in terms of observation and accurate fire.



Allies or Germany being strongest

In my opinion, having played really many operations in TRSM, and the start of a GC, the strength-balance depend on the skills of the players involved. The allied side may have more resources yes, but any skilled play on the German side, will always make up for that. Beside many of the German units have a morale and experience-level that outranks most of the allied forces, not all of them, but I would suggest more than enough.

Link to an operation I played, where my allied opponent lost tons of tanks compared to me: http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=9407
 
Quote:
Dint CC_Co play someone TRSM as German and he defeated the UK almost totaly?
This suggest that players skill affect the outcome of a GC.  One may assume CC_CO to be strong defender then, and the UK in that GC was not that strong. Thus outcome.


Hi Stalky, thanks, and yes the above link is that very operation, where my allied opponent did quite well in advancing and tactics, however, still, as playing the German side and using only a fractional amount of Panzer IVs, being maximum 2 Panzers per battle, I still inflicted devastating losses on his advance. It is really difficult to advance without heavy losses as allied player in TRSM, which is also why I want to play a GC so I can try and improve my skills in this vast challenge.  
It has to be said though, that regardless of who is on the attack in TRSM, most of the terrain favours the defending side.


Below an image from a grand campaign I played the first 2 full days of as allied. The image is from the first battle on the third day, thus basically showing the full losses of two full days of fightings. 2000 personnel and 100 tanks! My opponent used the German forces to their full defensive extend. A good defender I have to say, who also made excellent use of snipers. I don't think at this point I have even killed one of his snipers?

See how many tanks I lost to mostly poor German BGs. Most of the tank losses my opponent suffered, came when he began to counter-attack. A few of those attacks literally wiped out several of my BGs and I got kicked of several maps. Essentially though, Massive infantry losses in those 2 short but intense days of play.



Allied tank losses 9th.jpg
 Description:
Allied tank losses exploding within the first 3 days of a Grand Campaign i played. This is the operational losses at the first day of the 9th of June, being 911 in the save-data.
 Filesize:  150.2 KB
 Viewed:  6293 Time(s)

Allied tank losses 9th.jpg




Last edited by CC_CO on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tigercub

Rep: 23.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

thats a lot of tank losses indeed......VL rules as you stated...we can start....EDIT


The best Target is the one you just Hit!

Started with CC1 Demo
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

tigercub wrote (View Post):
thats a lot of tank losses indeed......VL rules as you stated...we can start....EDIT


Yes huge tank losses. Frustrating - but also a good lesson in what-not-to-do in the Boccage. Hopefully I have learned something since that game...


OK. So I guess if we want to deploy snipers somewhat behind the enemy lines, we simply have to capture a VL behind enemy lines.  

PM send.
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Still looking for an opponent.
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

A few five questions;

1. Are two strategic turns per week too much gaming to ask for? Should I go for 1½ half turn instead?

2. Should I let my opponent decide what side to play? (perhaps not all want to play the German side)

3. Should the winner receive all the reputation-points from the looser?

4. Does anyone in the community have experience with 42 battles per week, some 10-15 weeks in a row?

5. Are the suggested solutions too structured?

- the 42 battles per week, where we play Monday to Sunday, 2 hours per day (6 few battles) with a pause after 3 battles.
- the 36 battles per week, where we play Monday - Wednesday - Sunday, 4 hours per day (12 battles) with a pause after every 4-6 battle.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

1 commit to 2 turns per week is much for me...
2.why not...
4. In the early 2000...
5. I would agree to alll yer rules except the commitment. I play when i have time but sometimes its long between games. I would play german if only the number of games can be abandomed.

Maybe run 2 GC vs 2 diff opponents. In that way you may more easy fined atleast one of em awalible..??

/ St
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Thanks for the fast response Stalky.  

1. Yes, sounds like its the amount of games per week being the main obstacle.

2. And yes to the picking side; has probably been too restricted with one side option-only.

3. Not sure, the reputation points idea could be too much. After all, yes, the win of the game should be enough, but perhaps for some players, beginning to lack commitment somewhat mid-campiagn, the points could become a motivating factor?  

4. Aha, so people have done this before. I just need to try that kind of gaming out my self it seems. Cause the year-long-slow-campiagn, I already have tried.

5. OK. But where would the bar be for you? How many games per week could you/anyone in the community accept?


Hm, personally I don't see those two hours of gaming per day, in short 3 months, as a huge commitment, but then again, that's my view on things-only, also having the need to try out this kind of short and intense campaign.  


Another question to the two-hours of gaming per day,

What if those two hours of gaming could be split up in two AM and PM windows? The break between them could be several hours?
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Hi again. Co

The best thing would be someone whos as committed as u, and who have that time awalible. But me, i am more free in jun july and august and a month at xmas. Thogh thatdont meen i have that much time over anyway.. Several houres a day, not possible.... I still have reallife things that limits time theas days....   Playing a gc vs me would take years.... Dimas and my latest has been running for 4 years.... Lol..... Things was v diff 10 years ago...
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Yes that would probably be the best option. However, it seems it will take some time before someone steps up to this short and intense suggestion of a great campaign, where the intensity alone will push the evolvement of both commanders play-style, compared that is, to a year-long campaign, which I have already tried.  

Stalky, thanks for your suggestion about playing 2 GCs; gave me an idea. Perhaps I should at some point consider to ask for more players, so they can cover each-other and still be able to use the time they have available. Thus basically playing the same short campaign but against 2-3 players?

Ah well, perhaps I just need to wait longer and hope someone has the time and interest.

Yes, well, 4 years is way too long. However I wouldn't mind trying out to play against you and Dima at some point. Small operation perhaps, should you have the time and interest.


Last edited by CC_CO on Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dgfred

Rep: 46.8


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Hey CO.

1- yes. If it is just for fun, don't make your opponent commit to so many rules. At certain time you can play more games... and at others less.

2- Sure. Letting your opponent pick their side makes it more fun for them.

3- Don't bother with rep points. Both of you will get them for your sportmanship and battle awareness by the board from looking over your TERRIFIC AARs and PICS.

4- Yes. Look back thru all the old AAR threads here. Many ended up unfinished because of RL problems/commitments, new games out, new mods out, etc.

5- YES. Be more lenient basically having to make many sacrifices for a good/reliable/committed/CC-loving opponent.

*You might consider 1 GC with you holding the main file. Play anyone (that you like and feel is reliable) in the Campaign letting different players play as your opponent when you feel like they would be a good one.
*Another idea is to play Operations against an opponent with limited time. That way 2 or 3 battles a day/night might be a round (AM or PM turn). Some of them are very interesting.

I personally only like to play maybe 2 or 3 battles per night. Then I like to think things over and plan... not to mention smoke, eat, watch sports, family stuff, take care of pets, etc.

I am in the Eastern time zone (North Carolina, USA) available most nights around 10-12 when I feel like playing. Sometimes I just like to get on gameranger and shoot the shit... not playing at all.
Occaisionally I play 4 or 5 battle in a row before calling a break... I never really know. That is why it is important not to force someone into such an iron-clad commitment on battles/time.

If you can play anytime... I would LOVE to play you. You just need to break down to me (I am a dunce) what times you play (and WHAT TIMES that would be for me).
In all the years I have played (since 1995- CC2) I have never been able to post screenshots... which is very embarrassing. Since you are so good at it... we would make a perfect match.

Lately I have been having trouble with TRSM... my game shuts down on certain maps like Cruelly.
So most likely we would have to play GJS, Utah, or some other mod if we both have it.
If my time constraints are too much for you to deal with, I understand. No problems.

Best regards, Greg


Sports Freak/ CC Commander/ Panzerblitz Commander
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Hi dgfred

1. Well I just don't see how the campaign should run without the necessary amount of rules? I played a full GC in CC4 and we did end up using all the rules we had made.

2. Yes the side-thing was too restricted. Changed now.

3. I agree they probably shouldn't be involved, unless somehow, at some point they could motivate both players in playing on those last 10 days of the campaign, should it become too redundant.  

4. Thanks, will make a search.

5.
Quote:
Be more lenient basically having to make many sacrifices for a good/reliable/committed/CC-loving opponent

*You might consider 1 GC with you holding the main file. Play anyone (that you like and feel is reliable) in the Campaign letting different players play as your opponent when you feel like they would be a good one.
*Another idea is to play Operations against an opponent with limited time. That way 2 or 3 battles a day/night might be a round (AM or PM turn). Some of them are very interesting.


Yes could end up I have to be more lenient. So far it looks like that, sadly for me, since I really want to try and play the short and intense Campaign.

*Thanks for the idea. Yes I have thought about it, and Stalky pretty much suggested a similar solution, however, it has been my goal from the start to play against the same opponent only. Could end up I have to drop the idea though.  

*Yes, however I have already done that several times this year alone. The last week-short small-operation I played two weeks ago, lost. It was a great Panther versus Sherman operation. 3 BGs each, 10 maps or so, of which we only fought on 3 of them IIRC?


Quote:
I personally only like to play maybe 2 or 3 battles per night. Then I like to think things over and plan... not to mention smoke, eat, watch sports, family stuff, take care of pets, etc.

I am in the Eastern time zone (North Carolina, USA) available most nights around 10-12 when I feel like playing. Sometimes I just like to get on gameranger and shoot the shit... not playing at all.


I like that too, have played like that a lot, however, at the moment I just want to try out the intense gaming. In regard to the time zone it sounds like your in GMT -4, meaning that the reason we probably never see each other on GR is that I sleep when your online 10-12 PM. If you go online between 8-12 AM, or 1-5 PM, there should be a chance for us to play.

I am a dunce too when it comes to time-zones, but as US Brake, think it was him posting, there are sites to convert time zones.

GJS, UTHA, I dont play really these games any more. Pretty much only play TRSM 982. For now I found my game in it.

Why haven't you posted any screens yet?

Thanks again for your offer, for now though I don't think it will work, Unless that is, I give up and use yours and Stalkys idea, asking several players to play the opposing side. That however, will be going against trying out this cool type of intense campaigning.


Last edited by CC_CO on Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

I should know what maps we replaced in trsm but..... Im old.... Dgfred, u have the laste map pack? I mean so its not of the replaced maps that causes the ctd... I should know.... But i dont...

/ST


Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Regarding the maps Stalky, just remembered this cool map from your and Dimas AAR.



Some 10 battles per turn, has that been the average amount of battles per turn, in your campaign?

Cause 10 battles per turn = 20 per strategic turn, meaning 40 per 2nd strategic turn, meaning with the criteria I set up so far, it should be possible to complete the campaign in around 3 short months.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Hi again men.

Yeh, some 10 fights per rounds feels like an average, (without counting them). Thus 20 rounds per day.

Seems now u have 2 players that want to fight ye, but can’t commit to the schedule. An alliance may be forming against you…  LOL

I hope you fined a devoted player with the time to spare CO.

/St
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

20 rounds, OK.

Yes, well, if my present suggestion doesn't lead anywhere, then its the alliance-option. Hope I find that player too.

Thanks Stalky
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

An alliance may be forming against you…  LOL

/St


Hi Stalky - So what's up with this alliance thing your talking about.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: TRSM GC Looking for opponent Reply with quote

Me, I have also found one more GC opponent since that idea was presented.

I thoght you have an new opponent now? Ronson?

/S
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