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AA_Megadeth

Rep: 9


PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

After almost two decades of playing CC, I am saddened to see what this game has become at the hands of Matrix Games.

Shoddy releases marred by poor choices in gameplay changes, bad modifications of AI behavior, buggy maps with LOS weirdness.

The principle behind the CC revival Matrix had planned was sound, but by doing it on the cheap they created the reverse of a revival, they lowered the quality of the overall CC family of games and made introducing new people to CC impossible.

Gameranger was a huge disappointment, I tried to hook up my friends to play these new CC games and it just wouldnt work, and I tried every patch and network trick etc.. what a waste of time. Poor implementation poor support and shoddy network code.

I now haven't played CC in a year, and I blame Matrix for it. I hope Slitherine does not make the same mistake and try to make CC sequels on the cheap by unqualified designers. Create new content, do not change the combat system or the AI from the originals. Dont be foolish enough to think you can improve upon CC V's AI and simulation level.

Thanks to those wonderful modders who made amazing stuff far better than what Matrix can produce, Berlin mod, Okinawa, Meuse, Stalingrad the Cauldron, Scheldt, Bloody Omaha, etc..

And thanks to Mooxe for keeping the CC torch burning bright.

I wish a real game company would come along and truly revive tactical gaming.

Rant off

Megadeth
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Joe98

Rep: 12.2


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:48 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

I played Close Combat often from Sept 1996 - Sept 2001. I retired from Close Combat on the evening before 9/11.

I played many on-line games and have great memories.

I did get the Longest Day and fiddled with it a bit.

My complaint was the same complaint from CC1 - CC5 and that is the poor LOS.

In CC1 if you try to cross open ground you get cut down.  After CC1, cross open ground and there are numerous depressions where you can take cover.

These depressions are invisible to a defender allowing the attacker to cross open ground.

And the you get a long straight road. There is a monor change in the elevation and that change makes it impossible for an AT gun or  an armoured vehicle to hit a target!

Also, recalling  games from 199 - 2001, many times I set up a MG team lookijng down a road and again duue to the elevation change and enemy squad can cross a road with no losses.

CC1 with the graphics of the latest games would be a great wargame.

.
.
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tigercub

Rep: 23.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:06 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

fear not the best has yet to come with the mods from LSA...but i do agree with most you have said Megadeth...cc is the game i have played more in my life than any...the new remakes have fallin short...mods are the key,give me a million ill do it myself.

Tigercub


The best Target is the one you just Hit!

Started with CC1 Demo


Last edited by tigercub on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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platoon_michael

Rep: 56.2
votes: 25


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:22 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Whats wrong with correcting the maps yourselves?
And is the AA_Clan still around?
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mooxe

Rep: 221.7
votes: 25


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:15 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

I barely have the steam left for these types of threads. What you are saying is what we were saying almost immedietley after Matrix got a hold of Close Combat years ago.

I will defend GameRanger though. Its our best bet for multiplayer out of all the other options. It has worked flawlessly for me and many others as well.


Join Discord for technical support and online games.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:23 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

MUHAHAHAHA!

My LCD monitor croaked last week after 8 years of service. I probably ran it 15 hours a day.

Anyway, while waiting for a new monitor to arrive, I have been using my wife's laptop, with Windows 7.

To pass the time, I installed CC5 from the original disks, when I purchased it back in 1999.

And, you know what. IT WORKS FLAWLESSLY. Well, I am sure it still has the same old bugs, but other than that, it works great.

I find it ironical, that the main purpose or the re-releases, were to insure the games would work properly with a modern OS.

Back when the re-releases we first discussed, I also thought, that Matrix would just port each game, and NOT try to put in NEW FEATURES.

All software development teams are probably asked to do a straight migration (port) project at some time or another, but there are usually a handfull of weasels, that badger management to add NEW FEATURES to the project.

At least I can attest, that considering CC5, on my system, neither the migration project, or the new features, were really necessary.

In hindsight, they were a total waste of time, since CC5 (on my system) also runs just fine with Windows XP.
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tigercub

Rep: 23.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
I barely have the steam left for these types of threads. What you are saying is what we were saying almost immedietley after Matrix got a hold of Close Combat years ago.

I will defend GameRanger though. Its our best bet for multiplayer out of all the other options. It has worked flawlessly for me and many others as well.

i say the same gameranger has been ok for me too.(mostly)

Tigercub


The best Target is the one you just Hit!

Started with CC1 Demo
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Gameranger is a big positive for all CC versions.
___________________________________

I think the new releases had good intentions.

Most versions still need some work and patches.

With Matrix, we have a company that supports and patches the new games.

The old games have no support.

So for those who benefit or enjoy the new versions it's a good thing.

Those who can play the old versions and have no interest in the new releases, still benefit from the buzz created by the new versions. Many old players are coming back and playing the series.




Close Combat's most infamous SOB
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CSO_Sbufkle

Rep: 32.2
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

AA_Megadeth wrote (View Post):
After almost two decades of playing CC, I am saddened to see what this game has become at the hands of Matrix Games. I hope Slitherine does not make the same mistake


This is first news to me another company has CC.. but man.. if its the same group of guys behind it.. well come on.. how many years of tire spinning before you guys realize its simply over?


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CSO_Sbufkle

Rep: 32.2
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

WOW.. just went to the Slitherine/MAtrix site sellign remakes.. 40$ for the digital download copy?? Is that a joke?? and over 52$ for the boxed copy?

Thats WAY too high.


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Joe98

Rep: 12.2


PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):

.....is what we were saying almost immedietley after Matrix got a hold of Close Combat years ago.


Err no.  LOS has been a problem ever since CC2 in 1997.  10 years before Matrix got involved.

I retired from Close Combat in 2001.  
.
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platoon_michael

Rep: 56.2
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

All you have to do is visit any of the forums for these re-releases and look at the dates for the posts to know that these games are Dead.


Guess I better learn how to play CCV  Embarassed  Crying or Very sad
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dj

Rep: 157.5
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):
WOW.. just went to the Slitherine/MAtrix site sellign remakes.. 40$ for the digital download copy?? Is that a joke?? and over 52$ for the boxed copy?

Thats WAY too high.


Absolutely Matrix pricing model is INSANE!  I have been complaining more than anyone on how absurd the prices are.  They have other non-CC games that are priced even worse...some almost $100 with tax/shipping for boxed copy!   $100 are they serious?


What will the Revolution Change? - Youth Brigade
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kweniston

Rep: 57.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Matrix know they're in a niche market, and they're exploiting the situation. They know avid grognards will pay anything for a 'serious' wargame. The smaller the audience, the higher the price.
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Tejszd

Rep: 133.6
votes: 19


PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

If you keep your on the website you can get a better price then you mention.

They just had a D-Day sale with the CC remakes for the digital copy for $29US....

Here is the link to the sale post with titles and prices for June 6 to 12; http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3118387
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Hesus

Rep: 51.2


PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

The only problem i have with gameranger is that i am not able to host games.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Didn't Mattel for sometime have CC4 and 2 in plain old jewel cases on mark down shelves for US $10 or even less not long after their release?

It is noteworthy that Matrix continues to still want to extract a small fortune for these releases (COI and later) so many years after release.

I purchased a brand new, sealed WAR 1 year ago on Amazon that had my name digitally printed onto the disk for cheaper than Matrix offered the same.. US$35.00 as an example.


PeG-WW2 Campaigns Page
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

johnsilver wrote (View Post):
Didn't Mattel for sometime have CC4 and 2 in plain old jewel cases on mark down shelves for US $10 or even less not long after their release?

It is noteworthy that Matrix continues to still want to extract a small fortune for these releases (COI and later) so many years after release.

I purchased a brand new, sealed WAR 1 year ago on Amazon that had my name digitally printed onto the disk for cheaper than Matrix offered the same.. US$35.00 as an example.


Hi,

I got a CC4 jewel case only disk for exactly that ... $10. But mine came from Ubi Soft. I would like to mention that earlier this year, I installed CC5 onto my wife's laptop with W7, and it ran perfectly. I am guessing CC4 would do the same. How ironical, that Matrix sold their rereleases under the pretense that they were "modern OS" ready. I am guessing, Matrix just wanted to add goofy, uneeded features, to these games.
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

I don't knoiw about Matrix being a "disservice" to the CC community. If Matrix hadn't picked up the series who would have come along and revived it otherwise? My hunch is that no one would have picked up the series if it weren't for Matrix. As far as price, as one person pointed out wargaming is a small market. Selling a game for $10 a pop isn't going to keep any company afloat. Any gaming company has to make some sort of profit in order to survive.

But I do agree that it has been a little discouraging to only have remakes so far.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Matrix games a disservice to the CC community Reply with quote

Gary,

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I do think in the end, one needs to determine just what Matrix accomplished.

To what extent has CC been revived? I truely cannot say. If CC5 and CC4 do run well on W7, then just looking at the content of this site alone, one might argue that Matrix accomplished nada (or very little), for at least those titles. Maybe "disservice" is strong language, but 50 bucks for a CC remake is equally strong language.

True, there would not have been CCMT.

And perhaps CC2 and CC3 might not actually run well on W7. I haven't heard if they do or dont.

But I can remember being in the camp that just wanted the games patched (i.e. no new features).

But you can see Matrix went much further than all that, with new features, new e-book manuals, digital download and boxed versions, a web site so Matrix could post up add-on content, servers for mass multiplayer events, overly elaborate marketing pages in their product section, outiside Matrix marketing, and fake game reviews (they cost money too). They didn't have to do all that, but you see this is the type of stuff that makes a software war game cost a lot of money.

Gary, perhaps you have a built in bias for game producers in general, rather than a built in bias for game users/consumers.
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