Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: Unbalanced Points in Editor made Operations
Editor made operations seem to have a mind of their own when it comes to assigning points.
For example:
I've made a 15 day operation where Russians start with a medium size army and receive only a few points in the first few days and progressively much more, the Germans start with a large army and receive many points at the beginning and progressively much less towards the end.
When it actually comes to playing the operation multiplayer the computer seems to completely disregard the points assigned and will give both sides a lot of points. i.e. If one side has been given 500 points and the other 50 points, the lesser side with 50 points will still receive something in between 300 and 500 points.
It seems to make these decisions based on what balance of forces was at the start of the operation.
Could anyone help me understand the point system in Cross of Iron, its rather frustrating and it means making intricacies like counter-attacks during operations not possible.
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Unbalanced Points in Editor made Operations
Check the readme.doc in the install dir of the game... or just read it here;)
Quote:
Requisition Points and Custom Scenarios
When creating custom operations using the Scenario Editor, you need to understand how Close Combat III calculates the number of requisition points awarded to each side. You’ll notice that the points you assign when creating the game may be changed when you play the game. The points change because Close Combat III compares relative force strength at the beginning of each battle, then awards bonus points to the Russians (if current force strength exceeds expected force strength) or Germans (if expected force strength exceeds current force strength).
The final requisition points awarded each side is calculated as follows:
Day points + Bonus points + Previous day’s unused requisition points
Assume you’re creating an operation using Scenario Editor that has three maps and lasts four days. You assign 100, 125, and 150 map points to the Germans on the first, second, and third map of the operation, respectively. You assign 30, 130, and 60 map points to the Russians. You assign the Germans 115, 75, and 175 day points for days two through four, respectively. You assign the Russians 40, 120, and 80 day points.
Assume also that you’ve set the difficulty to veteran, so the difficulty factor in all the calculations will be 1/7. Refer to the difficulty setting table in this document to determine which difficulty factor to use. For example, if you set difficulty to hero in a single player game, the difficulty factor is +/-3/7.
Day points are calculated for both the player and computer (host and client). Scenario Editor day points are the points you assign using the Scenario Info screen; current map points are the points you assign using the Map Info screen’s Map Data dialog box. Day points for the player (host) are calculated using the following:
(Scenario Editor day points + Current map points) - ((Scenario Editor day points + Current map points) x 1/7)
Day points for the computer (client) are calculated using the following:
(Scenario Editor day points + Current map points) + ((Scenario Editor day points + Current map points) x 1/7)
Remember, you only gain map points when you capture a map for the first time.
Consequently, filling the in the numbers results in the following player (host) day 1 calculation if you’re playing as the Russians:
(0 + 30) - ((0 + 30) x 1/7) = 26 Russian day points on day one
The result for the computer (client) as the Germans:
(0 + 100) + ((0 + 100) x 1/7) = 114 German day points on day one
There are no scenario editor day points since the battle is the first in the operation, so there are only map points.
For day two, the calculations depend on whether or not you’re fighting on the second map. If so, the Russian and German calculations would be:
(40 + 130) - ((40 + 130) x 1/7) = 146 Russian day points on day two
(115 + 125) + ((115 + 125) x 1/7) = 274 German day points on day two
Expected force strength for the player (host) is calculated as follows:
(Sum of map points) - (Sum of map points x 1/7) + (Sell back value of starting teams x 2)
Expected force strength for the computer (client) is calculated as follows:
(Sum of map points) + (Sum of map points x 1/7) + (Sell back value of starting teams x 2)
The key components in this calculation are map points and sell back value. Map points are the points you assign to each map in the operation using the Map Info screen. Clicking the Map Data button displays the dialog box you use to assign map points.
The sell back value in the expected force strength calculation is the sell back value of the teams you assign to the team in Scenario Editor. It does not include any teams you later add in the Requisition screen prior to game play; consequently, this number is a constant throughout the operation.
Given the map points from the previous example, assume that you selected German teams worth 99 points and Russian teams worth 49 points. Then the expected force strength calculations for the first day would be:
30 - (30 x 1/7) + (49 x 2) = 124 Russian expected force strength on day one
100 + (100 x 1/7) + (99 x 2) = 312 German expected force strength on day one
Assume on day two you’re playing on the second map, the calculations would be:
160 - (160 x 1/7) + (49 x 2) = 150 Russian expected force strength on day two
225 + (225 x 1/7) + (99 x 2) = 455 German expected force strength on day two
Current force strength for the player (host) is calculated as follows:
Day points + (2 x Sell back value of current teams) + (Requisition points carried over from previous battle / 2)
Current force strength for the computer (client) is calculated as follows:
Day points + (2 x Sell back value of current teams) + (Requisition points carried over from previous battle / 2)
Given the same example numbers, the day one current force strength calculations would be:
26 + (2 x 49) + 0 = 124 Russian current force strength
114 + (2 x 99) + 0 = 312 German current force strength
Remember, for day one, the current sell back value is the same as the starting sell back value.
If you had been able to add 100 points worth of teams to both the German and Russian sides after day one, then the current force strength calculation would be:
146 + (2 x 149) + 0 = 444 Russian current force strength on day two
343 + (2 x 199) + 0 = 672 German current force strength on day two
Once Close Combat III calculates both expected and current force strength, it creates expected and current ratios. The expected ratio is:
Russian expected force strength / German expected force strength
The current ratio is:
Russian current force strength / German current force strength
Using the example numbers, the ratios for day one are:
124 / 312 = .39744 Expected ratio on day one
124 / 312 = .39744 Current ratio on day one
Using the example numbers, the ratios for day two are:
150 / 455 = .32967 Expected ratio on day two
444 / 672 = .66071 Current ratio on day two
If the expected ratio is less than the current ratio, the Russians get bonus points. If the expected ratio is greater than the current ratio, the Germans get bonus points. If the ratios are equal, no bonus points are awarded.
Remember, the formula for calculating requisition points:
Day points + Bonus points + Previous day’s unused requisition points
To complete the example, since the ratios are equal on day one, neither side gets bonus points. Consequently, the requisition points for each side are:
26 + 0 + 0 = 26 Russian day one requisition points
114 + 0 + 0 = 114 German day one requisition points
Since the current ratio is greater than the expected ratio on day two, the Russians get bonus points. The bonus points are calculated as follows:
((Russian current force strength / Expected ratio) - (German current force strength)) x .7
German bonus points are calculated as follows:
((German current force strength x Expected ratio) - (Russian current force strength)) x .7
So the Russian bonus points are calculated as follows:
((444/.32967) - 672) x .7 = 472
So the final requisition points for day two would be:
146 + 472 + 0 = 618 Russian day two requisition points
274 + 0 + 0 = 274 German day two requisition points
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Unbalanced Points in Editor made Operations
Thanks for that.
I can't find that readme.doc anywhere.
I tried studying this but get a little confused.
The main point of confusion is the semantics. Is current force strength calculated from the previous battle that just happened and then is compared to the expected force strength on that day?
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Unbalanced Points in Editor made Operations
I don't have COI (only CC3) so not sure why there's no readme.doc:/ Anyway, check the attachment. It's from CC3 but I think COI calculates req points the same way... which is a mysterious way (at least to me). I'm sorry I cannot help you any further... but I hope someone else will be able to answer your questions.
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Unbalanced Points in Editor made Operations
Very informative interesting to note you spotted that:
Quote:
Finally it is clear from testing the bonus point determination as applied in the game is If the expected ratio is greater than the current ratio, the Russians get bonus points. If the expected ratio is less than the current ratio, the Germans get bonus points not the reverse as detailed in the readme and update texts.
This was a major bone of contention for me and really threw up spanners in the works after some preliminary testing, even though I had a sneaking suspicion it was the case.
It actually balances things quite nicely having discovered the error in the txt. files. but I actually happen to agree with the original developers that the side fleeing and not spending requisition points should get more of a bonus as they are building reserves rather than fielding troops imo. I mean there has to be some bonus in not spending req.
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